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>> What are "unstable electricity bills" ? > https://www.epexspot.com/en/market-data?market_area=DE-LU&au https://www.epexspot.com/en/market-data?market_area=D

by lispm 2y ago

>> What are "unstable electricity bills" ? > https://www.epexspot.com/en/market-data?market_area=DE-LU&au https://www.epexspot.com/en/market-data?market_area=DE-LU&au... Today Germany a peak of 2300€/MWh at 6-7, and a negative of -0.05€ at 12-13. That's a price, not a bill. It's an auction. Electricity is traded there. >> Changing market prices are the reality in many markets. > For a market to be competitive, it must also be predictable. If energy costs vary drastically—€1000/MWh one day and €0 the next—it poses a severe challenge for companies. Such unpredictability discourages investment and may cause industries to relocate. That's nonsense. "Markets" don't need to be predictable. There are lots of markets, where predictability plays a minor role. There are also renewable energy forecasts, just like there are weather forecasts. In the future we will have much much more electricity capacity from renewable. Lots of business will then take advantage of that. That's a completely new market. > Imagine an energy-intensive company unable to operate profitably due to volatile energy prices. energy intensive companies have long-term electricity contracts. Additionally many of these companies can steer their demand. > Paid employees ready to work might have to wait because high energy costs could lead to financial losses. What? >However, this interconnectedness does not solve the problem. If Germany's electricity prices soar, they might rely on cheaper Swedish electricity, potentially saturating Sweden's supply and raising costs for Swedes. This scenario recently played out, prompting the Swedish government to halt plans for a new power cable to Germany. That's all yesterday thinking. Germany is not only connected to Sweden (which it is indirectly) and countries/companies can regulate the export of electricity. > The consequences are counterproductive. Germany's unstable energy market negatively impacts its citizens and neighboring countries. Rather than increased connectivity, the opposite approach might be more beneficial. Sure not. It's the fear of modern technology. > While the transition to renewable energy is essential, it is not without its challenges. Recognizing the limitations of renewables is crucial for anyone genuinely committed to this goal. Sure there are challenges. Challenges are everywhere. We here in Europe, for example have the challenge to get rid of the energy dependence from Russia, which has served Europe (and Germany) with gas, oil and nuclear (fuel production, technology, fuel reprocessing, ...). Russia has used its energy industry to blackmail Europe. That's a challenge. But you assume "limitations" of renewable energy which simply are not there or only temporary. For a lot of these "limitations" we will see solutions, like large interconnected grids, demand steering, usage of over-capacity in fuel production, large batteries, ... We have seen this "limitation" thinking decades ago, when the German electricity industry (mostly coal and nuclear) claimed that renewable energy could only provide a few percent energy share. The grid would be unstable. The reality: the German grid is still super reliable and we approach 60% electricity from renewable energy - in a country with very little hydro capacity. > Are you being paid to promote renewables? Many parts of your argument sound like poorly crafted commercials. I had the same impression of your (in my opinion naive) nuclear talking points. Hackernews (ran by a venture capital firm Y Combinator) is best for people who can extrapolate trends into the future. Energy policy is a field of long term industry trends. Changes can take decades. Currently we see that nuclear changes very slowly if at all, renewable still accelerates. Don't bet the future on a stagnating energy technology.

Herz 2y ago
> That's a price, not a bill. It's an auction. Electricity is traded there. And how do you think the cost in the bill is determined? > That's nonsense. "Markets" don't need to be predictable. There are lots of markets, where predictability plays a minor role. There are also renewable energy forecasts, just like there are weather forecasts. Knowing that there won't be much sun tomorrow doesn't cause prices to drop. It simply confirms that they will be very high. Which is exactly what the day-ahead market does. > In the future we will have much much more electricity capacity from renewable. Lots of business will then take advantage of that. We live in the present, not in the future. And for it not to be a problem in the future, someone in the present has to think about it. It's a problem in the present. You're basically putting this problem off indefinitely, you don't care that it exists, you don't care to solve it. > That's a completely new market. Which does not exist outside of your dreams... > energy intensive companies have long-term electricity contracts. Additionally many of these companies can steer their demand. Not always. That said, someone must must pay anyways. And if you have a fixed rate and the variable rate goes up, somebody loses a lot of money. It happens like that in every market. It also happened post-covid with fixed-rate mortgages. > That's all yesterday thinking. Germany is not only connected to Sweden (which it is indirectly) and countries/companies can regulate the export of electricity. All beautiful. The fact remains that the Swedes don't want more connections because of German network problems. That they have past connections says nothing about the current and future state of Germany. And the statements speak for themselves, it's a disaster. > Sure not. It's the fear of modern technology. Empty words. > But you assume "limitations" of renewable energy which simply are not there or only temporary. For a lot of these "limitations" we will see solutions, like large interconnected grids, demand steering, usage of over-capacity in fuel production, large batteries, ... A lot of whishful thinking. You hope in solutions. But now we have problems, its a fact. > We have seen this "limitation" thinking decades ago, when the German electricity industry (mostly coal and nuclear) claimed that renewable energy could only provide a few percent energy share. The grid would be unstable. The reality: the German grid is still super reliable and we approach 60% electricity from renewable energy - in a country with very little hydro capacity. https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/higher-german-grid-fees-raise-consumer-electricity-costs-2024-energy-company https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/higher-german-grid-fees... Nothing is free. It's increidible how all the problems I show you are not problems. The only thing that's important is the future and that they will be solved. No one will solve them unless we first accept their existence. All you do is deny them, or minimize them, postponing them to future non-solutions.

by lispm 2y ago

Herz 2y ago

> That's a price, not a bill. It's an auction. Electricity is traded there. And how do you think the cost in the bill is determined? > That's nonsense. "Markets" don't need to be predictable. There are lots of markets, where predictability plays a minor role. There are also renewable energy forecasts, just like there are weather forecasts. Knowing that there won't be much sun tomorrow doesn't cause prices to drop. It simply confirms that they will be very high. Which is exactly what the day-ahead market does. > In the future we will have much much more electricity capacity from renewable. Lots of business will then take advantage of that. We live in the present, not in the future. And for it not to be a problem in the future, someone in the present has to think about it. It's a problem in the present. You're basically putting this problem off indefinitely, you don't care that it exists, you don't care to solve it. > That's a completely new market. Which does not exist outside of your dreams... > energy intensive companies have long-term electricity contracts. Additionally many of these companies can steer their demand. Not always. That said, someone must must pay anyways. And if you have a fixed rate and the variable rate goes up, somebody loses a lot of money. It happens like that in every market. It also happened post-covid with fixed-rate mortgages. > That's all yesterday thinking. Germany is not only connected to Sweden (which it is indirectly) and countries/companies can regulate the export of electricity. All beautiful. The fact remains that the Swedes don't want more connections because of German network problems. That they have past connections says nothing about the current and future state of Germany. And the statements speak for themselves, it's a disaster. > Sure not. It's the fear of modern technology. Empty words. > But you assume "limitations" of renewable energy which simply are not there or only temporary. For a lot of these "limitations" we will see solutions, like large interconnected grids, demand steering, usage of over-capacity in fuel production, large batteries, ... A lot of whishful thinking. You hope in solutions. But now we have problems, its a fact. > We have seen this "limitation" thinking decades ago, when the German electricity industry (mostly coal and nuclear) claimed that renewable energy could only provide a few percent energy share. The grid would be unstable. The reality: the German grid is still super reliable and we approach 60% electricity from renewable energy - in a country with very little hydro capacity. https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/higher-german-grid-fees-raise-consumer-electricity-costs-2024-energy-company https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/higher-german-grid-fees... Nothing is free. It's increidible how all the problems I show you are not problems. The only thing that's important is the future and that they will be solved. No one will solve them unless we first accept their existence. All you do is deny them, or minimize them, postponing them to future non-solutions.