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Let's run a thought experiment - you make death super easy like in a suicide booth in Futurama. How many people are going to fight life obstacles, pushing socie

Let's run a thought experiment - you make death super easy like in a suicide booth in Futurama. How many people are going to fight life obstacles, pushing society forward, or rather terminally quit at the first sign of troubles? Nihilism was quite popular in the 19th century and led us to two world wars already. All you'll get is a quick extinction of people like you in favor of those that persist and your opinion will be eliminated from the gene pool.

mistrial9 2y ago
In the West I think alcohol is a massive factor, when talking about the moods of large numbers of people in those days. It is no accident that alcoholic drinking was banned outright for some time, despite the deep cultural roots.
- Liquix 2y ago
  booze has been around for thousands of years. it's not good for you but it's also not a new phenomenon driving suicide numbers up. IMHO it's a combination of low wages, high cost of living, and scrolling/gaming/streaming/porn addiction. we don't know how to talk about it yet but it's fucking people up. human brains were not ready for what the internet has become
  - mantas 2y ago
    Booze - yes. Culture around booze… not exactly. Serious drinking was reserved for festivals and generally frowned upon. Nowadays… it’s much more common and much more abused. And modern alcohol is getting stronger and stronger, same with other drugs.
    - ido 2y ago
      I’m curious - are you American? I’ve had some former coworkers (non-Americans) who used to work in San Francisco and it sounded like they encountered a culture of drinking at work that I’ve never seen in Germany or Austria. I remember one story about every Wednesday afternoon a booze cart would go through the office and people would get absolutely hammered on hard liquor (while still at work!) I don’t know if this was specific to that (large, household name) company or if that’s emblematic but it sounded like a very bad idea (they had more stories of excessive drinking but that was the one I recall off the top of my head).
      - mantas 2y ago
        No. Lithuania. Here drinking culture reached bottom of the barrel during Soviet era. It’s getting somewhat better as the old generation heads for greener pastures. But it’s still pretty bad with full-on alcoholism being tolerated. I envy some parts of German drinking culture. E.g. seemingly preferring light beer over heavy drinks. But having visited many music festivals in Germany… You guys got some issues too :D
        ido 2y ago
        There's loads of alcoholism in Germany and Austria, but its generally frowned upon to get drunk at work (or at work events).
  - LorenPechtel 2y ago
    If anything I suspect booze reduces suicide numbers. For some people it's an escape that makes life tolerable. I'm thinking of a book whose title eludes me at present. It's by a doctor, talking about their ER experience. One of their frequent fliers--and one time he talked a bit about why. He had been a sniper in Afghanistan (Afghani, fighting the Russians), he drank to keep from killing himself because of the horrors he had experienced.
    - scotteric 2y ago
      People with alcohol use disorder are many times more likely to commit suicide. Alcohol makes depression worse in the long run, even if someone finds some temporary comfort from a bottle.
- educasean 2y ago
  The west? Alcohol has a much, much firmer grip over East Asia than any western countries I've seen. I think your analysis is very much incomplete.
delta_p_delta_x 2y ago
> How many people are going to fight life obstacles, pushing society forward, or rather terminally quit at the first sign of troubles? Not many, probably, but the option should be available to those who need it. > Nihilism was quite popular in the 19th century and led us to two world wars already I'm sorry, but this is rubbish. Firstly, I'm not nihilistic, but practical. Not everyone who wants to die is suffering; sometimes they just want out of a pointless and meandering life. They don't want to put in the effort to up themselves, and frankly, why should they? What right do other people have to impose their views on someone who's feeling like this? Sometimes one is suffering, but can't be bothered to, or might suffer more while trying to convince the state and a medical team that they deserve to die. It's 2024, and we have increasing acceptance of the gender spectrum, of the autism spectrum, of recreational narcotics, and more. Why is dying so marginalised? Like I said, this is a Christocentric view. A modern society must allow its citizens to die quietly, peacefully, and cleanly, whenever they choose. Next, what led to the two world wars was not 'nihilism', a very loaded single word, but rather a bunch of overly-complex defence pacts, treaties, and arms races in 1900s Europe that eventually collapsed into a bloody shit show. The second world war happened because of a feeling of revenge, anti-semitism, and Slavophobia on the part of the Germans, and imperialism on the part of all the Axis powers. Nothing more, nothing less. Depending on who you ask WW2 began as early as 1910 with the invasion and occupation of Korea by Japan. > your opinion will be eliminated from the gene pool Wanting to die is not (only) passed down in someone's genes. It is highly environmental and depends on what people do, who they talk to, and where and how they live.
Der_Einzige 2y ago
Nihilism has nothing to do with either world war. You’re likely trying to blame Nietzsche, who was the polar opposite of a nihilist, for German nationalism. The radical optimist Nietzsche, in his old age while writing Ecco homo, disavowed his German heritage and spoke about how awesome Poland and his polish identity were. Nihilism is only just now having an impact in the academy as it is the intellectual foundation of post modernist and critical theory.
- mcmcmc 2y ago
  It’s also vastly ignorant of the causes of World War I which had fuck all to do with nihilism. A radical fighting for Bosnian independence assassinated a Hapsburg, and then entangling alliances escalated what might’ve been a localized conflict into a world war.
drowsspa 2y ago
Nihilism leading to the two world wars and opinions being coded in the DNA are definitely two of the takes of all time
- drrskino 2y ago
  Opinion and perspective are closely tied to cultural upbringing which is closely tied to race and ethnicity.
  - drrskino 2y ago
    We hear about demographics of people and their beliefs "dying off" all the time. It does happen.
rrgok 2y ago
People ready to die often don't care about pushing society forward or ensuring the continuation of the human species. I always ask: for how long? What is the ultimate goal? If you don’t know, it's time to seek answers before pushing society forward carelessly.
manquer 2y ago
> your opinion will be eliminated from the gene pool The impulse to die being eliminated from the gene pool is a good thing ? Or rather the characteristics to fight for life at all costs is what one would want in the gene pool ? If what you assume is true, at some point people will want to die less and the problem will self correct . Death is important tool in evolution delaying it is not argument for it .

mistrial9 2y ago

In the West I think alcohol is a massive factor, when talking about the moods of large numbers of people in those days. It is no accident that alcoholic drinking was banned outright for some time, despite the deep cultural roots.

Liquix 2y ago
booze has been around for thousands of years. it's not good for you but it's also not a new phenomenon driving suicide numbers up. IMHO it's a combination of low wages, high cost of living, and scrolling/gaming/streaming/porn addiction. we don't know how to talk about it yet but it's fucking people up. human brains were not ready for what the internet has become
- mantas 2y ago
  Booze - yes. Culture around booze… not exactly. Serious drinking was reserved for festivals and generally frowned upon. Nowadays… it’s much more common and much more abused. And modern alcohol is getting stronger and stronger, same with other drugs.
  - ido 2y ago
    I’m curious - are you American? I’ve had some former coworkers (non-Americans) who used to work in San Francisco and it sounded like they encountered a culture of drinking at work that I’ve never seen in Germany or Austria. I remember one story about every Wednesday afternoon a booze cart would go through the office and people would get absolutely hammered on hard liquor (while still at work!) I don’t know if this was specific to that (large, household name) company or if that’s emblematic but it sounded like a very bad idea (they had more stories of excessive drinking but that was the one I recall off the top of my head).
    - mantas 2y ago
      No. Lithuania. Here drinking culture reached bottom of the barrel during Soviet era. It’s getting somewhat better as the old generation heads for greener pastures. But it’s still pretty bad with full-on alcoholism being tolerated. I envy some parts of German drinking culture. E.g. seemingly preferring light beer over heavy drinks. But having visited many music festivals in Germany… You guys got some issues too :D
      - ido 2y ago
        There's loads of alcoholism in Germany and Austria, but its generally frowned upon to get drunk at work (or at work events).
- LorenPechtel 2y ago
  If anything I suspect booze reduces suicide numbers. For some people it's an escape that makes life tolerable. I'm thinking of a book whose title eludes me at present. It's by a doctor, talking about their ER experience. One of their frequent fliers--and one time he talked a bit about why. He had been a sniper in Afghanistan (Afghani, fighting the Russians), he drank to keep from killing himself because of the horrors he had experienced.
  - scotteric 2y ago
    People with alcohol use disorder are many times more likely to commit suicide. Alcohol makes depression worse in the long run, even if someone finds some temporary comfort from a bottle.
educasean 2y ago
The west? Alcohol has a much, much firmer grip over East Asia than any western countries I've seen. I think your analysis is very much incomplete.

delta_p_delta_x 2y ago

> How many people are going to fight life obstacles, pushing society forward, or rather terminally quit at the first sign of troubles? Not many, probably, but the option should be available to those who need it. > Nihilism was quite popular in the 19th century and led us to two world wars already I'm sorry, but this is rubbish. Firstly, I'm not nihilistic, but practical. Not everyone who wants to die is suffering; sometimes they just want out of a pointless and meandering life. They don't want to put in the effort to up themselves, and frankly, why should they? What right do other people have to impose their views on someone who's feeling like this? Sometimes one is suffering, but can't be bothered to, or might suffer more while trying to convince the state and a medical team that they deserve to die. It's 2024, and we have increasing acceptance of the gender spectrum, of the autism spectrum, of recreational narcotics, and more. Why is dying so marginalised? Like I said, this is a Christocentric view. A modern society must allow its citizens to die quietly, peacefully, and cleanly, whenever they choose. Next, what led to the two world wars was not 'nihilism', a very loaded single word, but rather a bunch of overly-complex defence pacts, treaties, and arms races in 1900s Europe that eventually collapsed into a bloody shit show. The second world war happened because of a feeling of revenge, anti-semitism, and Slavophobia on the part of the Germans, and imperialism on the part of all the Axis powers. Nothing more, nothing less. Depending on who you ask WW2 began as early as 1910 with the invasion and occupation of Korea by Japan. > your opinion will be eliminated from the gene pool Wanting to die is not (only) passed down in someone's genes. It is highly environmental and depends on what people do, who they talk to, and where and how they live.

Der_Einzige 2y ago

Nihilism has nothing to do with either world war. You’re likely trying to blame Nietzsche, who was the polar opposite of a nihilist, for German nationalism. The radical optimist Nietzsche, in his old age while writing Ecco homo, disavowed his German heritage and spoke about how awesome Poland and his polish identity were. Nihilism is only just now having an impact in the academy as it is the intellectual foundation of post modernist and critical theory.

mcmcmc 2y ago
It’s also vastly ignorant of the causes of World War I which had fuck all to do with nihilism. A radical fighting for Bosnian independence assassinated a Hapsburg, and then entangling alliances escalated what might’ve been a localized conflict into a world war.

drowsspa 2y ago

Nihilism leading to the two world wars and opinions being coded in the DNA are definitely two of the takes of all time

drrskino 2y ago
Opinion and perspective are closely tied to cultural upbringing which is closely tied to race and ethnicity.
- drrskino 2y ago
  We hear about demographics of people and their beliefs "dying off" all the time. It does happen.

rrgok 2y ago

People ready to die often don't care about pushing society forward or ensuring the continuation of the human species. I always ask: for how long? What is the ultimate goal? If you don’t know, it's time to seek answers before pushing society forward carelessly.

manquer 2y ago

> your opinion will be eliminated from the gene pool The impulse to die being eliminated from the gene pool is a good thing ? Or rather the characteristics to fight for life at all costs is what one would want in the gene pool ? If what you assume is true, at some point people will want to die less and the problem will self correct . Death is important tool in evolution delaying it is not argument for it .