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> You have imposter syndrome because you are an imposter. You are really bad. It's ok, doctors hurt people for years while learning to save them What in the me

> You have imposter syndrome because you are an imposter. You are really bad. It's ok, doctors hurt people for years while learning to save them What in the medical malpractice?

ponector 2y ago
A recent Johns Hopkins study claims more than 250,000 people in the U.S. die every year from medical errors. It is ok to be an imposter.
- jameshart 2y ago
  Is it your impression that the medical profession thinks that’s ok?
  - whamlastxmas 2y ago
    The medical industrial complex clearly thinks it is, otherwise there would drastically lower patient loads, allow more spots for medical school, and provide better working conditions that would allow for fewer mistakes. None of this is happening and is an implicit acceptance of medical error deaths
  - 4RealFreedom 2y ago
    Yes. Nothing is perfect. The remedy they've chosen is to rely on insurance. There is a reason we call doctor's offices 'practices'.
    - thfuran 2y ago
      There is, but it's not what you're implying.
    - switch007 2y ago
      You think they're called practices because of the less common usage of the term to mean an amateur learning something, to imply they're inexperienced/without training? Rather than it being the place where a practitioner works? ("someone whose regular work has involved a lot of training")
  - patrick451 2y ago
    They obviously do. Just look at the way they run residency programs. They work those poor kids to the bone under minimal supervision. Only the most disingenuous can pretend it's an accident when something goes wrong. The system is clearly designed to harm people.
  - BiteCode_dev 2y ago
    Show me a hospital, and I'll show you overworked, under slept young doctors that have to deal with paper work, and are swimming in a field with heavy lobbying. But even without this, the thing is, when you don't know, you will make mistakes. And when your job is to take care of people, mistakes hurt them. It's the nature of things. Last year I had 3 medical errors, one that almost got me killed, by very well-meaning professionals. Closing your eyes and pretending it doesn't happen is naive at best. But people have to start somewhere. They can't stay in theory forever. And no amount of preparation will save you from making terrible mistakes. Since we can't put an experienced doctor behind every intern 24/7, there is no real solution to this for now. Same for programming.
- goosejuice 2y ago
  Yeah let's go build some shoddy bridges and crash some planes while we're at it. Individuals can be new to a practice and feel like imposters but we shouldn't be pointing to statistics like this as an example of why it's ok. I can't believe people think like this.
  - BiteCode_dev 2y ago
    Planes and bridges are problems where the quality control can be centralized and you can therefore put a lot of redundancy. Even then, the Boeing scandal shows it's not bulletproof. It's not the same for medicine. There are way more doctors than you can put safety nets. Also, when a plane crashes, it's on the news, it costs money and PR. Much less so with doctors. The plane industry is not inherently more moral, just more liable. Responsibility in the health industry is way more diluted. It's not that we WANT to pay the price of people learning. I wish I would not have had the wrong meds given to me last year. It's just that the system is not currently set up to do it otherwise. So you can feel guilty and stop moving, and you will not learn. You will not grow. And you will actually hurt people for a longer period because you will still make mistakes. Or you can own it and accept the inevitable: doing things means having actual consequences on the world. If you want, you can dedicate your life to change the whole system and make it better. But I don't think anybody in this thread is doing that right now. I did see a lot of people on their high horses, but doing nothing though, paralyzed because they were looking for a way to never break anything. Me, for example. For years.
    - goosejuice 2y ago
      Sure, we're human. There is no argument there. However, normalizing the loss of human life as part of the learning algorithm is psychopathic. There's a time and a place to make mistakes... In mission critical situations that's in training and everywhere else we should aspire for safeguards that prevent the loss of life due to mistakes. In medicine a lot of these deaths can be prevented through greater care. It's not different than engineering in that respect. The greater problem is decision makers putting profits over life. And this kind of mentality in this thread is just fuel for that kind of behavior. It's gross.
cqqxo4zV46cp 2y ago
Making a mistake or a reasonable but ultimately incorrect call is not malpractice. Doctors are just people, just like the rest of us, and certainly you. It’s scary if you think that the medical system is more of a safety net than it actually is, but your gripe is with the precarious nature of life, not medicine.
- jameshart 2y ago
  Figuring out how to be a doctor by faking it til you make it most definitely is malpractice though, and ‘don’t worry, you’re an imposter but you only learn by screwing up’ is very much not how doctors learn their job. The Hippocratic oath is not ‘first, do some harm, as long as you’re learning’.

> You have imposter syndrome because you are an imposter. You are really bad. It's ok, doctors hurt people for years while learning to save them What in the medical malpractice?

ponector 2y ago

A recent Johns Hopkins study claims more than 250,000 people in the U.S. die every year from medical errors. It is ok to be an imposter.

jameshart 2y ago
Is it your impression that the medical profession thinks that’s ok?
- whamlastxmas 2y ago
  The medical industrial complex clearly thinks it is, otherwise there would drastically lower patient loads, allow more spots for medical school, and provide better working conditions that would allow for fewer mistakes. None of this is happening and is an implicit acceptance of medical error deaths
- 4RealFreedom 2y ago
  Yes. Nothing is perfect. The remedy they've chosen is to rely on insurance. There is a reason we call doctor's offices 'practices'.
  - thfuran 2y ago
    There is, but it's not what you're implying.
  - switch007 2y ago
    You think they're called practices because of the less common usage of the term to mean an amateur learning something, to imply they're inexperienced/without training? Rather than it being the place where a practitioner works? ("someone whose regular work has involved a lot of training")
- patrick451 2y ago
  They obviously do. Just look at the way they run residency programs. They work those poor kids to the bone under minimal supervision. Only the most disingenuous can pretend it's an accident when something goes wrong. The system is clearly designed to harm people.
- BiteCode_dev 2y ago
  Show me a hospital, and I'll show you overworked, under slept young doctors that have to deal with paper work, and are swimming in a field with heavy lobbying. But even without this, the thing is, when you don't know, you will make mistakes. And when your job is to take care of people, mistakes hurt them. It's the nature of things. Last year I had 3 medical errors, one that almost got me killed, by very well-meaning professionals. Closing your eyes and pretending it doesn't happen is naive at best. But people have to start somewhere. They can't stay in theory forever. And no amount of preparation will save you from making terrible mistakes. Since we can't put an experienced doctor behind every intern 24/7, there is no real solution to this for now. Same for programming.
goosejuice 2y ago
Yeah let's go build some shoddy bridges and crash some planes while we're at it. Individuals can be new to a practice and feel like imposters but we shouldn't be pointing to statistics like this as an example of why it's ok. I can't believe people think like this.
- BiteCode_dev 2y ago
  Planes and bridges are problems where the quality control can be centralized and you can therefore put a lot of redundancy. Even then, the Boeing scandal shows it's not bulletproof. It's not the same for medicine. There are way more doctors than you can put safety nets. Also, when a plane crashes, it's on the news, it costs money and PR. Much less so with doctors. The plane industry is not inherently more moral, just more liable. Responsibility in the health industry is way more diluted. It's not that we WANT to pay the price of people learning. I wish I would not have had the wrong meds given to me last year. It's just that the system is not currently set up to do it otherwise. So you can feel guilty and stop moving, and you will not learn. You will not grow. And you will actually hurt people for a longer period because you will still make mistakes. Or you can own it and accept the inevitable: doing things means having actual consequences on the world. If you want, you can dedicate your life to change the whole system and make it better. But I don't think anybody in this thread is doing that right now. I did see a lot of people on their high horses, but doing nothing though, paralyzed because they were looking for a way to never break anything. Me, for example. For years.
  - goosejuice 2y ago
    Sure, we're human. There is no argument there. However, normalizing the loss of human life as part of the learning algorithm is psychopathic. There's a time and a place to make mistakes... In mission critical situations that's in training and everywhere else we should aspire for safeguards that prevent the loss of life due to mistakes. In medicine a lot of these deaths can be prevented through greater care. It's not different than engineering in that respect. The greater problem is decision makers putting profits over life. And this kind of mentality in this thread is just fuel for that kind of behavior. It's gross.

cqqxo4zV46cp 2y ago

Making a mistake or a reasonable but ultimately incorrect call is not malpractice. Doctors are just people, just like the rest of us, and certainly you. It’s scary if you think that the medical system is more of a safety net than it actually is, but your gripe is with the precarious nature of life, not medicine.

jameshart 2y ago
Figuring out how to be a doctor by faking it til you make it most definitely is malpractice though, and ‘don’t worry, you’re an imposter but you only learn by screwing up’ is very much not how doctors learn their job. The Hippocratic oath is not ‘first, do some harm, as long as you’re learning’.