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Panama Papers: Court acquits all 28 charged with money laundering
- stavros 2y agoSo basically, if someone leaks evidence of wrongdoing, the perpetrators can't be prosecuted because the evidence is tainted? That seems fucked.
- yunohn 2y agoYeah this judgement makes no sense. I assumed whistleblowing with insider evidence was an accepted way (and possibly the only way) to expose these kinds of massive wrongdoings.
- survirtual 2y agoThere is no "possibly" about it. It is the only way to expose these wrongdoings. The system is rotten and rigged. The sooner people wake up to this reality, the better. Like any breakup, the longer you let the relationship go, the more difficult and painful it is when you end it.
- electric_mayhem 2y agoIt makes perfect sense. The system is working exactly as intended. Rigged for the absurdly wealthy against everyone else on the planet. Laws (and consequences for breaking them) are for us, not them.
- highcountess 2y agoUnfortunately, often the same people who are opposed to things like what you said “absurdly wealthy against everyone else”; also inadvertently support them and make them absurdly wealthy through things like the various schemes and contracts related to pandemics, climate change, bailouts, welfare/social services, healthcare, immigration, war, etc. If people wanted to solve this problem, we would need to make all of the things that benefit the wealthy financially but cost the rest of the people immensely, directly payable through direct taxes on income and wealthy of those most responsible and able to affect those matters, i.e., the upper neo-aristocracy. For example; all the people who benefited most from all the pollution, should now not also be able to profit from the prescribed solutions to the consequences of their actions that just happen to also make them even more absurdly wealthy. Even more unfortunate though is that many, if not most regular people simply do not understand the abusive relationship they are in with the upper class, so they’ll rationalize and excuse and justify all day long until the cows come home when someone wants to explain to them that being beaten, lied to, and exploited by the upper class is not a sign of love.
- electric_mayhem 2y agoSounds like you and I are in violent agreement. Though I dislike that you seem to begin with halfway lumping me in with the lot you go on to describe. I’d offer one other dark pattern in the overall dynamic. Some folks, rather than being in denial about their being on the victim end of an abusive relationship, appear to be 100% ok with it as long as they themselves get to bully and exploit others lower down in the hierarchy.
- boomboomsubban 2y agoIt's the same logic that is supposed to prevent people from being prosecuted for things found by illegal wiretapping and such. Really though, the leaks should have prompted a quick search warrant that got around this.
- yunohn 2y agoThere’s a world of difference between law enforcement doing illegal wiretapping and employees blowing the whistle.
- boomboomsubban 2y agoSure, but if it didn't apply here law enforcement could illegally wiretap you, leak it to the press, and then charge you. Things are different, but solutions are hard.
- CryptoBanker 2y agoOnly if you found a corrupt journalist who was willing to lie about their sources
- boomboomsubban 2y agoOr one who accepted anonymous leaks. Or a law enforcement agent willing to lie about who they were.
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- Aurornis 2y agoThis is just one trial in one country (Panama) where one judge dismissed the charges. This scheme was operated in Panama because the legal system is favorable to them. That’s why it’s called “Panama Papers” Many other people have been successfully charged throughout the world following the Panama Papers. Laws differ greatly across jurisdictions. Multiple people in the United States have been charged: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Papers_(North_America) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Papers_(North_America... More court cases are pending around the world. Don’t generalize across the world from the actions of one Panamanian court. This tax haven scheme was operated in Panama specifically because the legal system there was favorable to what they were doing.
- stavros 2y agoI'm not, my comment was about that one specific court (in the article).
- rvz 2y agoNot the first time something like this has happened. In fact it is the leakers are usually prosecuted instead of the perpetrators, even if they told the truth. For example, the leaker of the FinCEN files [0] was sentenced to prison for helping to expose the regulators and large banks allowing illicit transactions from criminals and drug cartels. [1] [0] https://www.icij.org/investigations/fincen-files/fincen-official-accused-of-leaking-secret-bank-records-requests-time-served/ https://www.icij.org/investigations/fincen-files/fincen-offi... [1] https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/jasonleopold/fincen-files-financial-scandal-criminal-networks https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/jasonleopold/fincen-fil...
- notarobot123 2y agoReminds me of something someone said a while back: > hey remember when the panama papers came out and revealed that all the rich people in the world are part of enormous criminal conspiracy to dodge taxes and hoard stolen wealth in offshore accounts and literally nothing happened
- fragmede 2y agoWhat a tiresome take. Mossack Fonseca was closed due to the leak, and Mossack and Fonseca were charged with money laundering. FIFA was investigated. A bunch of countries recovered a bunch of money due to the leak: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Papers#Recovered_sums_from_litigations,_fines_and_back_taxes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Papers#Recovered_sums_f... Wikipedia has articles covering the list of things that happened in each country in response to the leak: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactions_to_the_Panama_Papers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactions_to_the_Panama_Papers Europe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Papers_(Europe) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Papers_(Europe) Asia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Papers_(Asia) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Papers_(Asia) North America: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Papers_(North_America) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Papers_(North_America) South America: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Papers_(South_America) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Papers_(South_America) Africa: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Papers_(Africa) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Papers_(Africa) We didn't get the end of Fight Club or Mr. Robot where the global financial industry collapsed and we abolish money and we all live happily ever after, but "literally nothing happened" is just wrong.
- yunohn 2y ago> Mossack Fonseca was closed due to the leak, and Mossack and Fonseca were charged with money laundering. Yes and those are literally the dismissed charges this article discusses.
- pas 2y agoif other countries want they can put them on various lists, deny them future cash flows, clients, opportunities, whatever. and of course there have been many regulatory changes since then with regards to KYC/AML. are they enough? (are they even useful compared to how much hassle they are for average people? probably not it tax authorities don't do shit and don't audit rich people. but even that is changing.)
- beardyw 2y agoQuelle suprise.
- realusername 2y ago> A Panamanian court Yeah I mean, that's not like they have a real legal system anyways, the whole purpose of the place is to stash funds.
- speed_spread 2y agoAnd move boats from one ocean to another
- Aurornis 2y agoHeadline is misleading if you don’t read the article: This only refers to one judge in Panama dismissing a set of charges. Many other people around the world have been charged in connection with the Panama Papers leak. It’s not very surprising that a judge in Panama is dropping charges related to the leak. The entire reason this scheme was operated in Panama was because the legal system there is favorable to such schemes. That doesn’t mean people are free to evade the laws of their own home countries, though. Prosecutions continue based on what was released. Several people in the US have been successfully prosecuted, for example. The headline makes it sound like everybody got away with everything everywhere, which plays into the doomerism angle. It’s just bait though. Panama was always going to go easy on the Panamanian charges. That’s exactly why they did this in Panama!
- yunohn 2y agoIt’s not misleading? The article discusses the direct charges towards Mossack Fonseca, the literal mastermind of the tax evasion scheme. They are Panamian, so of course they would be tried in Panama and not elsewhere.
- Aurornis 2y agoJudging by all the comments here, a lot of people interpreted it as thought “all” people charged in conjunction with the Panama Papers (everywhere) got away with it, because the headline says “all”
- jjulius 2y agoMy interpretation is that most people in these comments were correctly able to understand why "28" immediately came after "all".
- Aurornis 2y agoScroll down to see the comments from people claiming “literally nothing happened” from the Panama papers, which they see this headline as confirming. As I write this, that thread is the 2nd comment thread from the top. It’s a very popular sentiment, despite being wrong.
- denton-scratch 2y ago> not been gathered in line with due process Well, that looks about right to me. I don't see how you can mount a valid prosecution based on evidence derived from a giant hack.
- Thiez 2y agoGenerally evidence gathered by the authorities may not be tainted, to discourage the police from breaking the law to gather evidence. This restriction does not usually apply to evidence collected by private citizens. In other words, if a burglar finds the dead bodies in your cellar, that evidence is admissable.
- denton-scratch 2y agoDepends where you are. US law doesn't apply everywhere. Also, I'd guess that even in the USA, evidence produced by a burglar can be challenged on the grounds that it isn't what it purports to be. I suspect that US chain-of-custody rules etc. are meant for broader purposes than just controlling police corruption. The police are not the only people who can manipulate evidence.
- Thiez 2y agoI'm not in or from the US either. It's a common rule though. The word of a burglar alone hopefully isn't enough for a conviction anywhere, but it should be sufficient for a warrant in sane jurisdictions.
- highcountess 2y ago“Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky […] were among those whose affairs came under scrutiny following the leak.” … and then we gave him $600 Billion of our citizens’ money.
- lenkite 2y agoLeaked documents prove that Zelensky and his inner circle have had their own network of offshore companies. Two belonging to the president’s partners were used to buy expensive property in London. The documents show that Zelensky and his partners in a television production company, Kvartal 95, set up a network of offshore firms dating back to at least 2012, the year the company began making regular content for TV stations owned by Ihor Kolomoisky, an oligarch dogged by allegations of multi-billion-dollar fraud. The offshores were also used by Zelensky associates to purchase and own three prime properties in the center of London. The documents also show that just before he was elected, he gifted his stake in a key offshore company, the British Virgin Islands-registered Maltex Multicapital Corp., to his business partner — soon to be his top presidential aide. And in spite of giving up his shares, the documents show that an arrangement was soon made that would allow the offshore to keep paying dividends to a company that now belongs to his wife.
- cen4 2y agoYou can see who funded his election. The thing about taking on the Elites, is you end up selling your soul to other Elites. There is no prosecution of the Elites. There is just a Circulation of Elites as Pareto showed us a century ago.
- 93po 2y agoElites get prosecuted when they've sufficiently pissed off or stolen from other elites
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