6 ms·

Racist?

by xanderlewis 2y ago

Racist?

relaxing 2y ago
It means showing prejudice or antagonism towards people based on their membership in a marginalized ethnic group.
- mensetmanusman 2y ago
  Like using ‘white man’ as an epithet
  - relaxing 2y ago
    ‘white man’ is not a marginalized ethnic group.
    - mensetmanusman 2y ago
      Poor whites are in some locales
      - happymellon 2y ago
        Boris Johnson is not poor.
  - xanderlewis 2y ago
    Good example.
n4r9 2y ago
Indeed, e.g. https://www.businessinsider.com/boris-johnson-record-sexist-homophobic-and-racist-comments-bumboys-piccaninnies-2019-6?op=1 https://www.businessinsider.com/boris-johnson-record-sexist-...
- xanderlewis 2y ago
  Oh — yes. I’m familiar with that. I don’t think (if you actually read the original source of the quotes rather than just finding the language offensive, which it seems almost no one does) it quite warrants the term ‘racist’, though.
  - n4r9 2y ago
    Interesting take. Do you think a white person using the n-word is racist?
    - xanderlewis 2y ago
      This will sound like I’m being needlessly perverse, but: no. Intent is what matters. Quite clearly, the word you mention can be used in a variety of ways for a variety of reasons — not all of them racist. Conversely, you can be the most awful racist without ever saying an offensive word. And there are plenty of those sorts of people too. However, as for the specific example you mention: I know Americans tend to feel very strongly about that word and I understand that. But to most other English speakers, whilst it’s a horrible word, its mere usage isn’t itself always considered a terrible crime. In fact, it commonly occurs in literature studied in schools — and yes, the teachers and students will in that case have licence to use (or read aloud, if you like) the word.
      - n4r9 2y ago
        I don't know if "perverse" is the word... maybe "avoidant". I can try to be more specific. Is it racist for a white person to use the n-word to refer to black people in casual conversation? As in, "I was walking to the shop and passed some n***s playing football."
        xanderlewis 2y ago
        If your question is whether mere use of language implies racism, I think I’ve answered that above. If I heard the sentence you give, I would quickly assume the speaker might be racist. But it’s clearly not an assumption that is always valid, because I can equally imagine someone using the word (ill-advisedly, of course) as a joke. It’s like saying ‘a person walking around with a knife in public must be a violent criminal’. Yes — the likelihood is that they are. If you think the sentence you gave is racist (a priori), you should consider whatever definition of racism you want to use and work out how it applies to that case. I get that what I’m saying is an unpopular view, but personally I think we shouldn’t give mere words such power. Their use in a situation that has separate indicators of prejudice is what we should really hope to avoid — going for the word itself is just naive.

Racist?

relaxing 2y ago

It means showing prejudice or antagonism towards people based on their membership in a marginalized ethnic group.

mensetmanusman 2y ago
Like using ‘white man’ as an epithet
- relaxing 2y ago
  ‘white man’ is not a marginalized ethnic group.
  - mensetmanusman 2y ago
    Poor whites are in some locales
    - happymellon 2y ago
      Boris Johnson is not poor.
- xanderlewis 2y ago
  Good example.

n4r9 2y ago

Indeed, e.g. https://www.businessinsider.com/boris-johnson-record-sexist-homophobic-and-racist-comments-bumboys-piccaninnies-2019-6?op=1 https://www.businessinsider.com/boris-johnson-record-sexist-...

xanderlewis 2y ago
Oh — yes. I’m familiar with that. I don’t think (if you actually read the original source of the quotes rather than just finding the language offensive, which it seems almost no one does) it quite warrants the term ‘racist’, though.
- n4r9 2y ago
  Interesting take. Do you think a white person using the n-word is racist?
  - xanderlewis 2y ago
    This will sound like I’m being needlessly perverse, but: no. Intent is what matters. Quite clearly, the word you mention can be used in a variety of ways for a variety of reasons — not all of them racist. Conversely, you can be the most awful racist without ever saying an offensive word. And there are plenty of those sorts of people too. However, as for the specific example you mention: I know Americans tend to feel very strongly about that word and I understand that. But to most other English speakers, whilst it’s a horrible word, its mere usage isn’t itself always considered a terrible crime. In fact, it commonly occurs in literature studied in schools — and yes, the teachers and students will in that case have licence to use (or read aloud, if you like) the word.
    - n4r9 2y ago
      I don't know if "perverse" is the word... maybe "avoidant". I can try to be more specific. Is it racist for a white person to use the n-word to refer to black people in casual conversation? As in, "I was walking to the shop and passed some n***s playing football."
      - xanderlewis 2y ago
        If your question is whether mere use of language implies racism, I think I’ve answered that above. If I heard the sentence you give, I would quickly assume the speaker might be racist. But it’s clearly not an assumption that is always valid, because I can equally imagine someone using the word (ill-advisedly, of course) as a joke. It’s like saying ‘a person walking around with a knife in public must be a violent criminal’. Yes — the likelihood is that they are. If you think the sentence you gave is racist (a priori), you should consider whatever definition of racism you want to use and work out how it applies to that case. I get that what I’m saying is an unpopular view, but personally I think we shouldn’t give mere words such power. Their use in a situation that has separate indicators of prejudice is what we should really hope to avoid — going for the word itself is just naive.