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Three C's are missing from this - consultation, consent and compensation. We post regularly online without any expectation of payment but then we never conside

Three C's are missing from this - consultation, consent and compensation. We post regularly online without any expectation of payment but then we never considered that the output could or would be used for commercial purpose. The value of our collective output is being captured by a very small elite. Not sure what we can do about this, other than support alternative eco-systems at least to ensure that intra-corporate competition might keep prices low

iamacyborg 2y ago
A good start might be to start voting with your wallet. Stop using products from companies that have trained their models in this way.
- criddell 2y ago
  And start voting with your attention too. By participating in open services online (like HN), you are actively participating in building a corpus of text that will be used by AI companies.
klardc 2y ago
For software engineers it is hard to protest in public since Microsoft controls GitHub and many "free" OSS projects where most real contributors have left after Microsoft installed a small ruling class of otherwise unremarkable software engineers. For Hollywood writers, artists, musicians, book authors it is much easier to protest. You could go to Redmond for a couple of weekends, camp on "One True Microsoft Way" and protest. And the NYT would cover this, since its interests are aligned with the protesters.
- courseofaction 2y ago
  When the short term cost of non-participation is far, far higher than the long term cost for the individual, is the ToS anything less than coercive? If you don't use github on principle, you're fucked. We need the public square back, we need it conceptualised as such. The death of twitter was horrifying, apparently you can just BUY it. Excuse my passionate language, but fuck these predators.
  - MiguelX413 2y ago
    Only decentralized and open source services were ever candidates to being public squares.
sigmoid10 2y ago
>We post regularly online without any expectation of payment but then we never considered that the output could or would be used for commercial purpose. We did. If you are posting here, that means you've explicitly stated that you read and agreed to Y Combinator's TOS. Which include this clause: > you hereby grant and will grant Y Combinator and its affiliated companies a nonexclusive, worldwide, royalty free, fully paid up, transferable, sublicensable, perpetual, irrevocable license to copy, display, upload, perform, distribute, store, modify and otherwise use your User Content for any Y Combinator-related purpose in any form, medium or technology now known or later developed And people are still fine with this apparently, otherwise they wouldn't use the service anymore.
- lolno66 2y ago
  I ask them to take a poem and hold it up to the light like a color slide or press an ear against its hive. I say drop a mouse into a poem and watch him probe his way out, or walk inside the poem's room and feel the walls for a light switch. I want them to waterski across the surface of a poem waving at the author's name on the shore. But all they want to do is tie the poem to a chair with rope and torture a confession out of it. They begin beating it with a hose to find out what it really means.
- courseofaction 2y ago
  Bullshit. The cost of not participating in the short term is high.
  - sigmoid10 2y ago
    This is not a new development. All your content online hasn't been yours for nearly two decades. People who still don't get this seriously need to get educated and think about what they post - or simply stop posting.
- johnnyanmac 2y ago
  >And people are still fine with this apparently, otherwise they wouldn't use the service anymore. It's heavily skewed against us, but you can still argue the 3c's here. consulation is the licence, consent is agreement, compensation is agreed upon as none for the user. What's not in that agreement is letting non-afiliated companies do any of the above actions. And I believe the privacy policy and GDPR cover other clauses pertaining to the sell of our data. >Sale or Sharing of Personal Information. We do not sell or share your Personal Information (as those terms are defined under the CCPA).

iamacyborg 2y ago

A good start might be to start voting with your wallet. Stop using products from companies that have trained their models in this way.

criddell 2y ago
And start voting with your attention too. By participating in open services online (like HN), you are actively participating in building a corpus of text that will be used by AI companies.

klardc 2y ago

For software engineers it is hard to protest in public since Microsoft controls GitHub and many "free" OSS projects where most real contributors have left after Microsoft installed a small ruling class of otherwise unremarkable software engineers. For Hollywood writers, artists, musicians, book authors it is much easier to protest. You could go to Redmond for a couple of weekends, camp on "One True Microsoft Way" and protest. And the NYT would cover this, since its interests are aligned with the protesters.

courseofaction 2y ago
When the short term cost of non-participation is far, far higher than the long term cost for the individual, is the ToS anything less than coercive? If you don't use github on principle, you're fucked. We need the public square back, we need it conceptualised as such. The death of twitter was horrifying, apparently you can just BUY it. Excuse my passionate language, but fuck these predators.
- MiguelX413 2y ago
  Only decentralized and open source services were ever candidates to being public squares.

sigmoid10 2y ago

>We post regularly online without any expectation of payment but then we never considered that the output could or would be used for commercial purpose. We did. If you are posting here, that means you've explicitly stated that you read and agreed to Y Combinator's TOS. Which include this clause: > you hereby grant and will grant Y Combinator and its affiliated companies a nonexclusive, worldwide, royalty free, fully paid up, transferable, sublicensable, perpetual, irrevocable license to copy, display, upload, perform, distribute, store, modify and otherwise use your User Content for any Y Combinator-related purpose in any form, medium or technology now known or later developed And people are still fine with this apparently, otherwise they wouldn't use the service anymore.

lolno66 2y ago
I ask them to take a poem and hold it up to the light like a color slide or press an ear against its hive. I say drop a mouse into a poem and watch him probe his way out, or walk inside the poem's room and feel the walls for a light switch. I want them to waterski across the surface of a poem waving at the author's name on the shore. But all they want to do is tie the poem to a chair with rope and torture a confession out of it. They begin beating it with a hose to find out what it really means.
courseofaction 2y ago
Bullshit. The cost of not participating in the short term is high.
- sigmoid10 2y ago
  This is not a new development. All your content online hasn't been yours for nearly two decades. People who still don't get this seriously need to get educated and think about what they post - or simply stop posting.
johnnyanmac 2y ago
>And people are still fine with this apparently, otherwise they wouldn't use the service anymore. It's heavily skewed against us, but you can still argue the 3c's here. consulation is the licence, consent is agreement, compensation is agreed upon as none for the user. What's not in that agreement is letting non-afiliated companies do any of the above actions. And I believe the privacy policy and GDPR cover other clauses pertaining to the sell of our data. >Sale or Sharing of Personal Information. We do not sell or share your Personal Information (as those terms are defined under the CCPA).