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Environmentalists have fought nuclear, wind, solar, and geothermal. They have fought infill housing and push for sprawl. The Sierra Club pushes for policies tha

Environmentalists have fought nuclear, wind, solar, and geothermal. They have fought infill housing and push for sprawl. The Sierra Club pushes for policies that increase water use and sprawl. I’m obviously right to ignore them and history will show me as correct. One or two private jets are irrelevant but pushing for bad policy and opposing good policy places them firmly on the other side. It’s all right. Their time is maybe another decade. Then we roll the whole thing back and get to fixing this world without the opinions of these people who want to ruin the only planet we have so far.

latexr 2y ago
> these people who want to ruin the only planet we have so far. You’re free to disagree with the policies and results of environmentalist actions and even argue that they’re having an undesired effect, but saying environmentalists want to ruin the planet is nonsensical. Anyone who desires that is by definition not an environmentalist.
- renewiltord 2y ago
  I judge people by actions not by stated claims. For instance, I don’t consider the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea to be democratic or a republic.
  - latexr 2y ago
    You are conflating the word used for the name of an entity with the word for a concept. When you say the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea is neither democratic nor a republic, you’re comparing the names “democratic” and “republic” to the concepts of what a democracy and a republic are. In other words, you're not (I hope) taking issue with either idea but with the fact that a government is misappropriating those words to make false claims. “Environmentalism” is a concept. An organisation called The Environmentalist Society for the Betterment of Puppies and Rainbows could be a nefarious river polluter while another called The Very Bad Toxic Wastelands could be a philanthropic conversationalist which plants forests. An environmentalist is someone acts in the best interest of the environment, regardless of what they call themselves.
    - renewiltord 2y ago
      Sure, find and replace “environmentalists” with “those who call themselves environmentalists”.
wkat4242 2y ago
I'm not familiar with the Sierra Club. I assume it's an American-specific organisation. Here in Europe we have "green parties" in most parliaments. But as most wide interest groups, environmentalists are not a homogeneous community. There is no general 'agenda' even though subgroups might have one. I'm sure there's subgroups that use environmentalism as a false flag to further their own goals. I'm personally against nuclear as I feel it externalises the problems into the future (waste management) which is exactly how we got into this situation we are in now. But I'm very much in favour of really renewable energy and public transport instead of private cars.
- renewiltord 2y ago
  Yes, the German Green Party has many pro-wind people who nonetheless oppose wind when it’s in their backyard. Germany’s transition from nuclear to coal under their influence is well known. Tragic that they have any power at all. But it won’t last.
- BriggyDwiggs42 2y ago
  That nuclear take is bad though. We can manage the waste, but even if we fail the consequences are dramaaaaaatically less severe than those of extra warming.

latexr 2y ago

> these people who want to ruin the only planet we have so far. You’re free to disagree with the policies and results of environmentalist actions and even argue that they’re having an undesired effect, but saying environmentalists want to ruin the planet is nonsensical. Anyone who desires that is by definition not an environmentalist.

renewiltord 2y ago
I judge people by actions not by stated claims. For instance, I don’t consider the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea to be democratic or a republic.
- latexr 2y ago
  You are conflating the word used for the name of an entity with the word for a concept. When you say the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea is neither democratic nor a republic, you’re comparing the names “democratic” and “republic” to the concepts of what a democracy and a republic are. In other words, you're not (I hope) taking issue with either idea but with the fact that a government is misappropriating those words to make false claims. “Environmentalism” is a concept. An organisation called The Environmentalist Society for the Betterment of Puppies and Rainbows could be a nefarious river polluter while another called The Very Bad Toxic Wastelands could be a philanthropic conversationalist which plants forests. An environmentalist is someone acts in the best interest of the environment, regardless of what they call themselves.
  - renewiltord 2y ago
    Sure, find and replace “environmentalists” with “those who call themselves environmentalists”.

wkat4242 2y ago

I'm not familiar with the Sierra Club. I assume it's an American-specific organisation. Here in Europe we have "green parties" in most parliaments. But as most wide interest groups, environmentalists are not a homogeneous community. There is no general 'agenda' even though subgroups might have one. I'm sure there's subgroups that use environmentalism as a false flag to further their own goals. I'm personally against nuclear as I feel it externalises the problems into the future (waste management) which is exactly how we got into this situation we are in now. But I'm very much in favour of really renewable energy and public transport instead of private cars.

renewiltord 2y ago
Yes, the German Green Party has many pro-wind people who nonetheless oppose wind when it’s in their backyard. Germany’s transition from nuclear to coal under their influence is well known. Tragic that they have any power at all. But it won’t last.
BriggyDwiggs42 2y ago
That nuclear take is bad though. We can manage the waste, but even if we fail the consequences are dramaaaaaatically less severe than those of extra warming.