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It got weird when “Devops” became a job role and the tools were CI/CD pipelines built on config automation and cluster orchestration. That becomes the baseline

It got weird when “Devops” became a job role and the tools were CI/CD pipelines built on config automation and cluster orchestration. That becomes the baseline for everything. No matter how overkill it is. The vast majority of web software is comically over-engineered. The deployment process has so many features and components that you need a full-time staff of specialists to configure and monitor the build system. And it could be something as straightforward as a marketplace website or medium complex like some kinds of SaaS. The web application could probably be compiled into a single binary or container and it’s database could run in RAM. And yet to ship a single change doesn’t take one developer but a whole team, eye watering enterprise contracts with several vendors, and it’s still slow as molasses. There’s a time and a place for config as code and container orchestration. The problem is that it’s used for every single project regardless of requirements.

zer00eyz 2y ago
> The vast majority of web software is comically over-engineered. Im not sure downloading libraries from NPM and adding services till it works is "engineering" Im not even sure it is good or fast. I am certain that it is expensive. For the 2nd time today Im going to say it the only metric that matters is Cost per customer, cost per user, that includes the systems that includes the engineers to run it. If you don't know these numbers what the hell kind of business are you running. Follow the money.
- agentultra 2y ago
  Agree. I’m not gate-keeping what is and isn’t engineering. Where I live it’s a protected term anyway. People get sued for calling themselves software engineers. I’m using the Wikipedia definition of, “over engineering.” Solving a problem in an elaborate way when a sufficient and simpler solution can be demonstrated to exist. In many cases you could rsync a binary to your servers and let the monitor process reload your web server. Or you can build out a build farm, dependency cache, and… spend $2, as you say, where someone who is practicing engineering could do well (or better) with $1.
  - zer00eyz 2y ago
    Fair. The point stands that it it is done without thought for consequences... "overly complex" is probably a better turn of phrase (and more accurate)

zer00eyz 2y ago

> The vast majority of web software is comically over-engineered. Im not sure downloading libraries from NPM and adding services till it works is "engineering" Im not even sure it is good or fast. I am certain that it is expensive. For the 2nd time today Im going to say it the only metric that matters is Cost per customer, cost per user, that includes the systems that includes the engineers to run it. If you don't know these numbers what the hell kind of business are you running. Follow the money.

agentultra 2y ago
Agree. I’m not gate-keeping what is and isn’t engineering. Where I live it’s a protected term anyway. People get sued for calling themselves software engineers. I’m using the Wikipedia definition of, “over engineering.” Solving a problem in an elaborate way when a sufficient and simpler solution can be demonstrated to exist. In many cases you could rsync a binary to your servers and let the monitor process reload your web server. Or you can build out a build farm, dependency cache, and… spend $2, as you say, where someone who is practicing engineering could do well (or better) with $1.
- zer00eyz 2y ago
  Fair. The point stands that it it is done without thought for consequences... "overly complex" is probably a better turn of phrase (and more accurate)