5 ms·

> It uses an AI-based method involving drones to calibrate the mirrors 200 times faster compared to traditional techniques using cameras, Synhelion says. Precis

> It uses an AI-based method involving drones to calibrate the mirrors 200 times faster compared to traditional techniques using cameras, Synhelion says. Precision is key to ensure the mirrors track the sun and efficiently reflect its light into a solar receiver at the top of a 20 m tall tower. Naively I would assume we know where the sun is and how to calculate the angles. What are drones and AI doing?

ulfw 2y ago
Creating investor hype. What else?
XorNot 2y ago
Calibrating out mechanical backlash and mis-alignment in the mountings I assume.
- usrusr 2y ago
  As in fly a scanning pattern around the focus point and look for mirrors that blind the drone instead of frying the tower. Should be crazy efficient compared to the terrible alternative which would require something like deliberately de-focusing all other mirrors only to be able to verify that the mirror under test actually does project the sun where expected. Tempted to keep my initial upvote on the "investor hype" sibling, out of spite for all projects that do, but the ability to check arbitrary points in the nonilluminated volume for accidental illumination must really make do much of a difference I can't. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction!
  - fl7305 2y ago
    > fly a scanning pattern around the focus point and look for mirrors that blind the drone instead of frying the tower. Or just put up a big black board with reference points on it, and point a camera at that?
    - usrusr 2y ago
      So then you have a live image of a big black board? The beauty of the misalignment patrol drone is that it does not leave you guessing wich one exactly of your large number of inexpensive mirrors is out of line. The culprit clearly lights up in the video feed.
      - fl7305 2y ago
        You normally keep all mirrors pointed at the real target. Then take one at a time and point it at the black board off to the side. You can then use the camera image of the position of the sun spot on the black board to figure out your new calibration settings for this particular mirror.
        usrusr 2y ago
        Ah, separate target for testing assumptions in isolation.
ekianjo 2y ago
AI can be just a linear regression these days
fl7305 2y ago
> Naively I would assume we know where the sun is and how to calculate the angles. What are drones and AI doing? Yes, you know exactly where the sun is in a global coordinate system. The problem is that your mirrors are not fixed in that global coordinate system. You need to continuously re-calibrate the local coordinate system of the mirrors against the global system.
- sgc 2y ago
  That is a simple math + sensor problem, not an AI and drone problem. https://www.topconpositioning.com/us/en/solutions/technology/infrastructure-products/millimeter-gps https://www.topconpositioning.com/us/en/solutions/technology...
  - vlovich123 2y ago
    I think it’s more that it’s been shown that a motor at each panel is more expensive than manually rotatable mirrors that are maintained by a smaller set of mirrors. For example, there was a startup a few years back that had robots on a rail system go to each panel and adjust it. The reason should be obvious in that the motors are higher maintenance systems so you don’t want to scale with the size of your plant. I imagine drones are being used for a similar purpose: the drones further reduce how many adjusters you need vs rails and the AI is so that the drones can actually adjust the panels.
    - fl7305 2y ago
      For concentrated solar polar, you need almost constant movement of the mirrors to keep tracking the sun well enough. So you need independent azimuth+elevation for each mirror.
      - vlovich123 2y ago
        https://www.technologyreview.com/2012/09/04/184005/a-robot-to-tilt-solar-panels/amp/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2012/09/04/184005/a-robot-t... There’s always a performance/cost target you’re trying to hit. Sometimes it’s not about performance at all costs and it’s ok to sacrifice some optimality to get a much cheaper solution. So while the mirrors are independently adjusted, the there’s a single motor robot on a rail that comes by and custom adjusts each mirror instead of having the mirrors self adjust locally at all times.
overcast 2y ago
Wasting investor money and using a disproportionate amount of the worlds energy to build chat bots.

ulfw 2y ago

Creating investor hype. What else?

XorNot 2y ago

Calibrating out mechanical backlash and mis-alignment in the mountings I assume.

usrusr 2y ago
As in fly a scanning pattern around the focus point and look for mirrors that blind the drone instead of frying the tower. Should be crazy efficient compared to the terrible alternative which would require something like deliberately de-focusing all other mirrors only to be able to verify that the mirror under test actually does project the sun where expected. Tempted to keep my initial upvote on the "investor hype" sibling, out of spite for all projects that do, but the ability to check arbitrary points in the nonilluminated volume for accidental illumination must really make do much of a difference I can't. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction!
- fl7305 2y ago
  > fly a scanning pattern around the focus point and look for mirrors that blind the drone instead of frying the tower. Or just put up a big black board with reference points on it, and point a camera at that?
  - usrusr 2y ago
    So then you have a live image of a big black board? The beauty of the misalignment patrol drone is that it does not leave you guessing wich one exactly of your large number of inexpensive mirrors is out of line. The culprit clearly lights up in the video feed.
    - fl7305 2y ago
      You normally keep all mirrors pointed at the real target. Then take one at a time and point it at the black board off to the side. You can then use the camera image of the position of the sun spot on the black board to figure out your new calibration settings for this particular mirror.
      - usrusr 2y ago
        Ah, separate target for testing assumptions in isolation.

ekianjo 2y ago

AI can be just a linear regression these days

fl7305 2y ago

> Naively I would assume we know where the sun is and how to calculate the angles. What are drones and AI doing? Yes, you know exactly where the sun is in a global coordinate system. The problem is that your mirrors are not fixed in that global coordinate system. You need to continuously re-calibrate the local coordinate system of the mirrors against the global system.

sgc 2y ago
That is a simple math + sensor problem, not an AI and drone problem. https://www.topconpositioning.com/us/en/solutions/technology/infrastructure-products/millimeter-gps https://www.topconpositioning.com/us/en/solutions/technology...
- vlovich123 2y ago
  I think it’s more that it’s been shown that a motor at each panel is more expensive than manually rotatable mirrors that are maintained by a smaller set of mirrors. For example, there was a startup a few years back that had robots on a rail system go to each panel and adjust it. The reason should be obvious in that the motors are higher maintenance systems so you don’t want to scale with the size of your plant. I imagine drones are being used for a similar purpose: the drones further reduce how many adjusters you need vs rails and the AI is so that the drones can actually adjust the panels.
  - fl7305 2y ago
    For concentrated solar polar, you need almost constant movement of the mirrors to keep tracking the sun well enough. So you need independent azimuth+elevation for each mirror.
    - vlovich123 2y ago
      https://www.technologyreview.com/2012/09/04/184005/a-robot-to-tilt-solar-panels/amp/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2012/09/04/184005/a-robot-t... There’s always a performance/cost target you’re trying to hit. Sometimes it’s not about performance at all costs and it’s ok to sacrifice some optimality to get a much cheaper solution. So while the mirrors are independently adjusted, the there’s a single motor robot on a rail that comes by and custom adjusts each mirror instead of having the mirrors self adjust locally at all times.

overcast 2y ago

Wasting investor money and using a disproportionate amount of the worlds energy to build chat bots.