3 ms·

If you staying in someone's house you generally have to follow their rules. Unless said rules are... over the top. Is attendance and - at least token - particip

If you staying in someone's house you generally have to follow their rules. Unless said rules are... over the top. Is attendance and - at least token - participation in religious activity considered over the top? What if it was a case of starvation instead of (or in addition to) the homelessness?

lesuorac 2y ago
Can I set-up a homeless shelter on a farm and unless you pick strawberries you aren't allow to stay? Shelter with strings attached shouldn't count as a shelter.
- ehvatum 2y ago
  Yeah, a shelter is only truly a shelter if you don’t pay for it. Paying for a home is the very definition of homelessness, after all.
- skeledrew 2y ago
  Sure. I don't see a problem if the work is within reasonable parameters. This is a private entity offering use of their property under reasonable terms.
  - FireBeyond 2y ago
    And a government saying that you're subject to arrest if you don't agree to those "reasonable terms".
    - lesuorac 2y ago
      Keep in mind this was also how a lot of jim crow laws worked. ex. it's illegal to be unemployed (enforced against blacks) where unemployed included self-employment. So now you have a large population that is forced to work for any wage or get throw in prison where they're forced into work detail anyways.
FireBeyond 2y ago
Should you be subject to arrest if you don't want to be subject to religious conditions? You may want to review the Constitution on that one.
- skeledrew 2y ago
  That isn't there case though. You're being subject to arrest for failing to use an available shelter. The religious conditions are a side effect. Similar to how taking a dump is a side effect of eating, and so if you want to avoid taking one, you'd have to avoid eating, but you have to deal with the prospect of death as a consequence. You don't die from not taking a dump (usually), but from not eating.
  - FireBeyond 2y ago
    Well, it turned out it was the case, and as it wound through the appeals process, this was upheld, because when the City knows that this is happening and continues to enforce, it becomes a de facto situation, that the Court specifically called out in their decision: > A city cannot, via the threat of prosecution, coerce an individual to attend religion-based treatment programs -- Judge Marsha S. Berzon, for 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals
    - skeledrew 2y ago
      Is a shelter a treatment program? Or a place where someone can get some rest for a night or few, hopefully some food as well?

lesuorac 2y ago

Can I set-up a homeless shelter on a farm and unless you pick strawberries you aren't allow to stay? Shelter with strings attached shouldn't count as a shelter.

ehvatum 2y ago
Yeah, a shelter is only truly a shelter if you don’t pay for it. Paying for a home is the very definition of homelessness, after all.
skeledrew 2y ago
Sure. I don't see a problem if the work is within reasonable parameters. This is a private entity offering use of their property under reasonable terms.
- FireBeyond 2y ago
  And a government saying that you're subject to arrest if you don't agree to those "reasonable terms".
  - lesuorac 2y ago
    Keep in mind this was also how a lot of jim crow laws worked. ex. it's illegal to be unemployed (enforced against blacks) where unemployed included self-employment. So now you have a large population that is forced to work for any wage or get throw in prison where they're forced into work detail anyways.

FireBeyond 2y ago

Should you be subject to arrest if you don't want to be subject to religious conditions? You may want to review the Constitution on that one.

skeledrew 2y ago
That isn't there case though. You're being subject to arrest for failing to use an available shelter. The religious conditions are a side effect. Similar to how taking a dump is a side effect of eating, and so if you want to avoid taking one, you'd have to avoid eating, but you have to deal with the prospect of death as a consequence. You don't die from not taking a dump (usually), but from not eating.
- FireBeyond 2y ago
  Well, it turned out it was the case, and as it wound through the appeals process, this was upheld, because when the City knows that this is happening and continues to enforce, it becomes a de facto situation, that the Court specifically called out in their decision: > A city cannot, via the threat of prosecution, coerce an individual to attend religion-based treatment programs -- Judge Marsha S. Berzon, for 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals
  - skeledrew 2y ago
    Is a shelter a treatment program? Or a place where someone can get some rest for a night or few, hopefully some food as well?