4 ms·

I've always chosen not to install the "preview" updates, and always been a little surprised that Microsoft offers them at all. Isn't that what beta testing is f

I've always chosen not to install the "preview" updates, and always been a little surprised that Microsoft offers them at all. Isn't that what beta testing is for? I guess this justifies my decision.

userbinator 2y ago
Isn't that what beta testing is for? MS stopped caring about quality long ago. Now they seem to be experimenting with how abusive they can be towards users.
bee_rider 2y ago
Preview is a euphemism for beta testing, right? Didn’t they fire all their in-house QA ages ago?
- eddythompson80 2y ago
  > Didn’t they fire all their in-house QA ages ago? No, they didn’t? Like most other companies 10 (or so) years ago they transitioned their internal QA teams to development-role teams. Unless you’re referring to some particular XBOX gaming studio. For Windows there was some layoffs at the time of QA-to-dev transition, but they didn’t “fire all their in-house QA”. They just moved them to the current “industry standard” dev-qa-ops model, unfortunately.
  - toast0 2y ago
    I mean, it's true that the eliminated the engineer in test position. They didn't necessarily fire all the people in that position, because probably many of them switched to a new role. But keeping the people and giving them a new role means the old role isn't being done, and I don't think it's done good things for product quality. The old way was expensive, and far from industry norms, but the product was more reliable.
  - ThrowawayB7 2y ago
    Actually, for the Operating Systems Group specifically, it was reportedly a straight up layoff of all testers. See https://www.zdnet.com/article/beyond-12500-former-nokia-employees-who-else-is-microsoft-laying-off/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/beyond-12500-former-nokia-empl... Other divisions reportedly transitioned their testers to developers, which didn't work out well (big surprise) and resulted in heavy attrition later.
    - eddythompson80 2y ago
      Did you read the article you linked to? The article is from 2014 saying that Microsoft laid off ~12K after acquiring ~18k of Nokia employees 3 years prior. That left ~5k out of total ~135k, at the time, unaccounted for per Microsoft announcement. Microsoft had 1:1 dev:QA before that. Even if those ~5k were entirely from OSG QA (they weren’t), it wouldn’t come close to “fire all their in-house QA”
quaintdev 2y ago
It's a scream test. Push it and see if users scream.
makeitdouble 2y ago
Is it wrong to have additional levels beyond beta ? At least I'm glad they keep an isolated channel for these early deployments.
PikachuEXE 2y ago
I would argue that the whole latest win11 is THE "preview" update (so I will wait for win 12 and see if I want to switch)
- jhickok 2y ago
  I somewhat suspect that AI-Everywhere is going to make we want to skip 12 as well.
  - fourteenfour 2y ago
    I'm interested in the future naming schemes they are no doubt focus grouping now. Will we see Windows Series X? Windows '25? There's no way MS would do a Win13.
    - toast0 2y ago
      Windows One?
    - zogrodea 2y ago
      What's your reasoning for them avoiding Win13? It's just too large a number or something to do with Friday the 13th?
- LeoPanthera 2y ago
  That's a hard argument to justify given that Windows 10 will no longer be supported before the end of this year.
  - toast0 2y ago
    Microsoft currently says: > Windows 10 will reach end of support on October 14, 2025. [1] So we've got a year and change. And they may push it back, like they pushed back EoL when people didn't upgrade from XP or 7. [1] https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows-10-home-and-pro https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows...
  - 2y ago

I've always chosen not to install the "preview" updates, and always been a little surprised that Microsoft offers them at all. Isn't that what beta testing is for? I guess this justifies my decision.

userbinator 2y ago

Isn't that what beta testing is for? MS stopped caring about quality long ago. Now they seem to be experimenting with how abusive they can be towards users.

bee_rider 2y ago

Preview is a euphemism for beta testing, right? Didn’t they fire all their in-house QA ages ago?

eddythompson80 2y ago
> Didn’t they fire all their in-house QA ages ago? No, they didn’t? Like most other companies 10 (or so) years ago they transitioned their internal QA teams to development-role teams. Unless you’re referring to some particular XBOX gaming studio. For Windows there was some layoffs at the time of QA-to-dev transition, but they didn’t “fire all their in-house QA”. They just moved them to the current “industry standard” dev-qa-ops model, unfortunately.
- toast0 2y ago
  I mean, it's true that the eliminated the engineer in test position. They didn't necessarily fire all the people in that position, because probably many of them switched to a new role. But keeping the people and giving them a new role means the old role isn't being done, and I don't think it's done good things for product quality. The old way was expensive, and far from industry norms, but the product was more reliable.
- ThrowawayB7 2y ago
  Actually, for the Operating Systems Group specifically, it was reportedly a straight up layoff of all testers. See https://www.zdnet.com/article/beyond-12500-former-nokia-employees-who-else-is-microsoft-laying-off/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/beyond-12500-former-nokia-empl... Other divisions reportedly transitioned their testers to developers, which didn't work out well (big surprise) and resulted in heavy attrition later.
  - eddythompson80 2y ago
    Did you read the article you linked to? The article is from 2014 saying that Microsoft laid off ~12K after acquiring ~18k of Nokia employees 3 years prior. That left ~5k out of total ~135k, at the time, unaccounted for per Microsoft announcement. Microsoft had 1:1 dev:QA before that. Even if those ~5k were entirely from OSG QA (they weren’t), it wouldn’t come close to “fire all their in-house QA”

quaintdev 2y ago

It's a scream test. Push it and see if users scream.

makeitdouble 2y ago

Is it wrong to have additional levels beyond beta ? At least I'm glad they keep an isolated channel for these early deployments.

PikachuEXE 2y ago

I would argue that the whole latest win11 is THE "preview" update (so I will wait for win 12 and see if I want to switch)

jhickok 2y ago
I somewhat suspect that AI-Everywhere is going to make we want to skip 12 as well.
- fourteenfour 2y ago
  I'm interested in the future naming schemes they are no doubt focus grouping now. Will we see Windows Series X? Windows '25? There's no way MS would do a Win13.
  - toast0 2y ago
    Windows One?
  - zogrodea 2y ago
    What's your reasoning for them avoiding Win13? It's just too large a number or something to do with Friday the 13th?
LeoPanthera 2y ago
That's a hard argument to justify given that Windows 10 will no longer be supported before the end of this year.
- toast0 2y ago
  Microsoft currently says: > Windows 10 will reach end of support on October 14, 2025. [1] So we've got a year and change. And they may push it back, like they pushed back EoL when people didn't upgrade from XP or 7. [1] https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows-10-home-and-pro https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows...
- 2y ago