4 ms·

I wonder if this is a tragedy of "the org wasn't ready for his solution" or more of a "if I were to go back now, I'd notice it wasn't so good."

bornfreddy 2y ago
Why only those two options? It could be just "the company had other priorities and developers, while they appreciated Travis's work, didn't find it worthwhile to carry the torch themselves". Having a great testing framework is just one of the things that need devs' attention.
- MathMonkeyMan 2y ago
  Fair point, it's a false dichotomy; though your example is close to "the org wasn't ready for it," which is itself vague. Maybe the issue is that it easily comes apart without a dedicated censor, so to speak, and nobody wanted to have that role.
f1shy 2y ago
Without knowing anything, and before reading this comment, I had the feeling of nr. 2. Strong feeling. I think the reason is „many klocs of Python“. I have developed alergy to big Python programs. I like python for small things, probably wrapping some C code.
- bboygravity 2y ago
  Why would KLOC in Python be worse than in any other language?
  - munch117 2y ago
    Because you're doing more work per line. A 20 KLOC Python program is not more complicated than the 100 KLOC C program performing the same function. Quite the contrary. But if you're comparing 100 KLOC of C to 100 KLOC of Python, the Python program may seem unwieldy.
    - yosefk 2y ago
      So 500 KLOC of C doing the same thing would be better?..
      - munch117 2y ago
        Not at all. But when you come across 500 KLOC of C, then you say "wow this is big" and you're forewarned that this is going to be unwieldy. You may underestimate the 100 KLOC of Python. That's all I'm saying.
  - mrazomor 2y ago
    It's about the different ways the language allows you to shoot yourself in the foot. I worked on large Python, C++, Java & Go services. I have 10y+ of experience with the first 3. C++ allows you to write incomprehensible code (even to the experienced C++ devs) and justify its existence (because of the performance gains). But you need to be a top expert to write a compileable code of that type. I'm comfortable with diving in any C++ codebase except for the libraries like std, boost, abseil, folly, etc. Most of the code there is absurdly difficult to comprehend. On the other hand Python leads in the ways a junior dev can introduce hell in the code. Especially if the team doesn't rely on the strict type check. I have seen horrors. I was bewildered when I realized that working with JavaScript with type checks (Closure compiler) was insanely more productive and smooth than working with Python (before the type checks). That's why Java won the enterprise world. It takes an effort to make a mess in Java (but people still manage). Go is in a similar place.
- __rito__ 2y ago
  What languages do you personally prefer for many KLOCs of code?

bornfreddy 2y ago

Why only those two options? It could be just "the company had other priorities and developers, while they appreciated Travis's work, didn't find it worthwhile to carry the torch themselves". Having a great testing framework is just one of the things that need devs' attention.

MathMonkeyMan 2y ago
Fair point, it's a false dichotomy; though your example is close to "the org wasn't ready for it," which is itself vague. Maybe the issue is that it easily comes apart without a dedicated censor, so to speak, and nobody wanted to have that role.

f1shy 2y ago

Without knowing anything, and before reading this comment, I had the feeling of nr. 2. Strong feeling. I think the reason is „many klocs of Python“. I have developed alergy to big Python programs. I like python for small things, probably wrapping some C code.

bboygravity 2y ago
Why would KLOC in Python be worse than in any other language?
- munch117 2y ago
  Because you're doing more work per line. A 20 KLOC Python program is not more complicated than the 100 KLOC C program performing the same function. Quite the contrary. But if you're comparing 100 KLOC of C to 100 KLOC of Python, the Python program may seem unwieldy.
  - yosefk 2y ago
    So 500 KLOC of C doing the same thing would be better?..
    - munch117 2y ago
      Not at all. But when you come across 500 KLOC of C, then you say "wow this is big" and you're forewarned that this is going to be unwieldy. You may underestimate the 100 KLOC of Python. That's all I'm saying.
- mrazomor 2y ago
  It's about the different ways the language allows you to shoot yourself in the foot. I worked on large Python, C++, Java & Go services. I have 10y+ of experience with the first 3. C++ allows you to write incomprehensible code (even to the experienced C++ devs) and justify its existence (because of the performance gains). But you need to be a top expert to write a compileable code of that type. I'm comfortable with diving in any C++ codebase except for the libraries like std, boost, abseil, folly, etc. Most of the code there is absurdly difficult to comprehend. On the other hand Python leads in the ways a junior dev can introduce hell in the code. Especially if the team doesn't rely on the strict type check. I have seen horrors. I was bewildered when I realized that working with JavaScript with type checks (Closure compiler) was insanely more productive and smooth than working with Python (before the type checks). That's why Java won the enterprise world. It takes an effort to make a mess in Java (but people still manage). Go is in a similar place.
__rito__ 2y ago
What languages do you personally prefer for many KLOCs of code?