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Elixir is one language I REALLY want to use as the solo developer working on internal infrastructure tools; but I'm very hesitant as I don't want to be cruel to

by mervz 2y ago

Elixir is one language I REALLY want to use as the solo developer working on internal infrastructure tools; but I'm very hesitant as I don't want to be cruel to the person who eventually replaces me and has to maintain these applications written in this seemingly (awesome) niche language. Instead, I'm stuck writing applications in Go which is a language I absolutely despise but can't deny it's ability to get shit done regardless of the insane amount of boilerplate code I have to write. Any predictions on whether Elixir will eventually gain more traction? The language and platform are rock solid and it's the best developer experience I've encountered. Phoenix is by far my favorite web framework and just feels very intuitive and complete. The lack of a good IDE is one huge pain point that I can't seem to overcome (I don't care how much people praise it, I know it's the best but VSCode is awful for Elixir development). I just wish this language was more popular because it deserves to be!

abadpoli 2y ago
Part of this story is a self fulfilling prophecy. If devs like you avoid using Elixir because you’re afraid it isn’t popular enough, then it isn’t going to become more popular!
mark38848 2y ago
Why wouldn't you feel bad for the person having to write Go after you? Makes no sense to me
ch4s3 2y ago
I assure you that the Go evangelists before you(in general if not here specifically) had no such compunction about imposing that language on whoever was unlucky enough to inherit it.
- ikety 2y ago
  True, but you kind of get to introduce what you want as long as it's popular and well backed. Even if I know a tool or language is better suited for a task, I always prioritize my employer's ability to maintain that project over time. That usually means using similar technologies, or otherwise popular, and well backed technologies. Go has that in abundance over Elixir. For any personal project I'd take Elixir the vast majority of the time.
  - ch4s3 2y ago
    What I mean is that at some point Go was Rob Pike’s side project inside of Google and even Google wasn’t really using it. Back then it was an even more painful language to use. People outside of Google who latched on were imposing that choice on a lot of future maintainers.
- gregors 2y ago
  Extremely well said. There are reasons gigantic corporations like Microsoft and Google spend all that money convincing you to use their new creation.
sbuttgereit 2y ago
As already mentioned: it will only gain traction if/when less conservative developers and managers decide to use it. If everyone plays it safe, then no: it doesn't stand a chance because Java, Go, JavaScript, Python (etc) already exist. But I would argue the decision to adopt Elixir isn't really as simple as a "this language" or "that language". The most essential decision, I would suggest, is about Erlang... not so much the language as much as the virtual machine and OTP. If the problem you want to solve is well solved by the BEAM/OTP, then you start to look at the languages you might use with the BEAM/OTP. I think BEAM/OTP is underappreciated for many use cases and that are worth exploring; this broadens if you consider BEAM/OTP augmented with more performant programs built with a language like Rust/Zig/C/C++. But if everyone plays the conservative game and doesn't see the risk/reward payoff with BEAM/OTP favorably... then it will be the same old boring players with only the ocassional influence from the sidelines.
gregors 2y ago
I know a BUNCH of elixir devs that would love to pick up an Elixir project that needs a new lead....just saying. There's plenty of talent looking at the moment.
- neoecos 2y ago
  I'm hiring for this, Fintech project, 100% Elixir + Phoenix + LiveView. Email at bio
josefrichter 2y ago
Maybe more "traction" is not that important, in the end? BEAM has been around for decades and has proven its worth. Elixir has been around for quite some time too, is super stable and reliable, has a pretty decent user base, real-world applications, ecosystem, etc. In many cases, it's arguably the best tool for the job. And it's not like some critical piece of puzzle is missing. So it may stay kinda niche forever because people who fully understand the problem and fully realize how to solve it will also always be niche.
mtndew4brkfst 2y ago
Any predictions on whether Elixir will eventually gain more traction? I have 10 years with the language this year, much of it as a professional fulltime focus in senior IC roles. I would be shocked to my toes if there was ever going to be even 10 times more active Elixir devs than there are today, let alone more extreme growth. And I think that hypothetical plateau is an appropriate outcome commensurate with its ecosystem's breadth, applicability and quality today. Many libraries have single or absentee authors, even some you would assume were critical to the community, and major vendors in many verticals don't give us any thought when providing SDKs/integrations. Elixir seemingly doesn't have any major backing or adoption from large polyglot orgs or top FortuneN groups. We have failed to reach critical mass for broad mindshare, IMO. I have no personal plans to write net-new Elixir that I wasn't explicitly hired to work on in that specific stack.
chuckadams 2y ago
> Any predictions on whether Elixir will eventually gain more traction? I don’t know about Elixir, but Gleam looks promising. Even less IDE support than Elixir right now though.

by mervz 2y ago

abadpoli 2y ago

Part of this story is a self fulfilling prophecy. If devs like you avoid using Elixir because you’re afraid it isn’t popular enough, then it isn’t going to become more popular!

mark38848 2y ago

Why wouldn't you feel bad for the person having to write Go after you? Makes no sense to me

ch4s3 2y ago

I assure you that the Go evangelists before you(in general if not here specifically) had no such compunction about imposing that language on whoever was unlucky enough to inherit it.

ikety 2y ago
True, but you kind of get to introduce what you want as long as it's popular and well backed. Even if I know a tool or language is better suited for a task, I always prioritize my employer's ability to maintain that project over time. That usually means using similar technologies, or otherwise popular, and well backed technologies. Go has that in abundance over Elixir. For any personal project I'd take Elixir the vast majority of the time.
- ch4s3 2y ago
  What I mean is that at some point Go was Rob Pike’s side project inside of Google and even Google wasn’t really using it. Back then it was an even more painful language to use. People outside of Google who latched on were imposing that choice on a lot of future maintainers.
gregors 2y ago
Extremely well said. There are reasons gigantic corporations like Microsoft and Google spend all that money convincing you to use their new creation.

sbuttgereit 2y ago

As already mentioned: it will only gain traction if/when less conservative developers and managers decide to use it. If everyone plays it safe, then no: it doesn't stand a chance because Java, Go, JavaScript, Python (etc) already exist. But I would argue the decision to adopt Elixir isn't really as simple as a "this language" or "that language". The most essential decision, I would suggest, is about Erlang... not so much the language as much as the virtual machine and OTP. If the problem you want to solve is well solved by the BEAM/OTP, then you start to look at the languages you might use with the BEAM/OTP. I think BEAM/OTP is underappreciated for many use cases and that are worth exploring; this broadens if you consider BEAM/OTP augmented with more performant programs built with a language like Rust/Zig/C/C++. But if everyone plays the conservative game and doesn't see the risk/reward payoff with BEAM/OTP favorably... then it will be the same old boring players with only the ocassional influence from the sidelines.

gregors 2y ago

I know a BUNCH of elixir devs that would love to pick up an Elixir project that needs a new lead....just saying. There's plenty of talent looking at the moment.

neoecos 2y ago
I'm hiring for this, Fintech project, 100% Elixir + Phoenix + LiveView. Email at bio

josefrichter 2y ago

Maybe more "traction" is not that important, in the end? BEAM has been around for decades and has proven its worth. Elixir has been around for quite some time too, is super stable and reliable, has a pretty decent user base, real-world applications, ecosystem, etc. In many cases, it's arguably the best tool for the job. And it's not like some critical piece of puzzle is missing. So it may stay kinda niche forever because people who fully understand the problem and fully realize how to solve it will also always be niche.

mtndew4brkfst 2y ago

Any predictions on whether Elixir will eventually gain more traction? I have 10 years with the language this year, much of it as a professional fulltime focus in senior IC roles. I would be shocked to my toes if there was ever going to be even 10 times more active Elixir devs than there are today, let alone more extreme growth. And I think that hypothetical plateau is an appropriate outcome commensurate with its ecosystem's breadth, applicability and quality today. Many libraries have single or absentee authors, even some you would assume were critical to the community, and major vendors in many verticals don't give us any thought when providing SDKs/integrations. Elixir seemingly doesn't have any major backing or adoption from large polyglot orgs or top FortuneN groups. We have failed to reach critical mass for broad mindshare, IMO. I have no personal plans to write net-new Elixir that I wasn't explicitly hired to work on in that specific stack.

chuckadams 2y ago

> Any predictions on whether Elixir will eventually gain more traction? I don’t know about Elixir, but Gleam looks promising. Even less IDE support than Elixir right now though.