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The drivers commuting into Manhattan aren't terrible, they're responding totally rationally to the relative monetary and time costs of driving into the city vs

The drivers commuting into Manhattan aren't terrible, they're responding totally rationally to the relative monetary and time costs of driving into the city vs park & ride vs living closer. The terrible thing is that the incentives that have been established make driving the right choice for so many people. > The problem is other stakeholders live in the provinces. Exactly. People who live in New York City often end up being beholden to the preferences of people who live outside the city. There are downsides to the culture of localism in New England, but one nice thing is that cities and towns are typically able to prioritize the lives of their own residents which makes them nice places to live.

Spooky23 2y ago
Maybe in some New England areas. Greater Boston is a suburban hellscape. If traffic is your Kryptonite, beantown is worse in some dimensions. NYC prospers today because it’s a regional hub. All of the business that required physical presence (shipping, industry, etc) is long gone. Also note “the provinces” include NYC itself. I grew up in Queens, and congestion pricing certainly didn’t align with the needs of my relatives who live in the old neighborhood.
- asoneth 2y ago
  > congestion pricing certainly didn’t align with the needs of my relatives who live in the old neighborhood No doubt, but the question is to what degree the preferences of people who live in Queens should override the preferences of the people who live in Manhattan when it comes to deciding how to manage the streets of Manhattan. > Greater Boston is a suburban hellscape. If traffic is your Kryptonite, beantown is worse in some dimensions. For drivers, sure, it seems nearly as bad as NYC. I recall it being congested and confusing the few times I drove through Boston. Though it is nice that they buried some of the highways so you don't have to hear or see as much traffic downtown. But in general my concern is less about the impact on drivers than the impact on neighborhood residents, pedestrians, and cyclists. In some ways the Greater Boston area seems ahead of NYC in that regard.

Spooky23 2y ago

Maybe in some New England areas. Greater Boston is a suburban hellscape. If traffic is your Kryptonite, beantown is worse in some dimensions. NYC prospers today because it’s a regional hub. All of the business that required physical presence (shipping, industry, etc) is long gone. Also note “the provinces” include NYC itself. I grew up in Queens, and congestion pricing certainly didn’t align with the needs of my relatives who live in the old neighborhood.

asoneth 2y ago
> congestion pricing certainly didn’t align with the needs of my relatives who live in the old neighborhood No doubt, but the question is to what degree the preferences of people who live in Queens should override the preferences of the people who live in Manhattan when it comes to deciding how to manage the streets of Manhattan. > Greater Boston is a suburban hellscape. If traffic is your Kryptonite, beantown is worse in some dimensions. For drivers, sure, it seems nearly as bad as NYC. I recall it being congested and confusing the few times I drove through Boston. Though it is nice that they buried some of the highways so you don't have to hear or see as much traffic downtown. But in general my concern is less about the impact on drivers than the impact on neighborhood residents, pedestrians, and cyclists. In some ways the Greater Boston area seems ahead of NYC in that regard.