4 ms·

In pro tennis only the top 100 players actually make more money than they spend.

by p1esk 2y ago

xmprt 2y ago
To be fair, the same could be said about a lot of gamers. People spend $1000+ on a gaming PC and even if they enjoy playing competitively, most of them never go pro. I wonder if pro tennis is a case of people not wanting to go pro or not being able to go pro. Edit: I think a handful of people are misunderstanding my point. I'm saying that not everything has to have a monetary return on investment. Even if the "opportunity cost" of spending all that time grinding is super high, the return is just the enjoyment that one gets from playing the game or from feeling accomplished to reach a certain goal/rank even if it's not pro level.
- jncfhnb 2y ago
  $1000k on a gaming pc is an extremely small investment compared to the time spent training to be competitive at anything.
- hombre_fatal 2y ago
  If it were just $1000, it would be a bargain. The real cost is the opportunity cost of grinding and never making it.
- tpurves 2y ago
  $1000 could be less than the costs of just flights to one weekend tennis tournament which, because of seeding, you're highly likely to go out in the first round as a low ranked player.
- OfficeChad 2y ago
  [dead]
TeaBrain 2y ago
This may have been true at one time, but it is not true now. 128 players qualify for the first round of each of the four major tournaments and for each, the players have a guaranteed payday even if they lose in the first round. For the 128 who qualify for the US Open, players will get over $80k for just playing the first round, even if they lose. For example, the 101st ranked ATP (men) player has made over $450k from prize money in just a little over half of this season. The 102nd ranked player has made over $330k so far. Considering that there are two more majors left this year which they'll likely qualify for, they'll likely make another several hundred thousand more at-least this year from just competition. Many of the top 150 tennis players often make the equivalent amount to their prize money or greater in sponsorships. The lack of sustainable income from just competition becomes more true once you look outside the top 150. The low ranking tennis players that the article referred to were outside the top 300, which meant that they were stuck playing the futures tournaments where there is little possibility for money. Conor Niland, who wrote the article, only briefly achieved a career high ranking of 129, but spent most of his career ranked outside of the top 300. https://www.atptour.com/en/players/luca-van-assche/v0dz/overview https://www.atptour.com/en/players/luca-van-assche/v0dz/over... https://www.atptour.com/en/players/yoshihito-nishioka/n732/overview https://www.atptour.com/en/players/yoshihito-nishioka/n732/o...
- IncreasePosts 2y ago
  $330k would be good for an individual with a desk job, but when you factor in the other costs to run the "enterprise" of a tennis player, what does the take home look like? IE how much does a tennis coach cost? Travel and lodging for tournaments. I'm assuming they might have a medical expert or nutritionist on the staff as well?
  - TeaBrain 2y ago
    330k is his earnings from only a little over half of the season. It is probably only half of earnings this year also, considering that an equal amount is likely made from sponsorships, given that Yoshihito is Japan's second highest ranking ATP player. Top 150 players usually have separate sponsorships for both clothing and racquets. A quick search reveals Yoshihito has brand ties to Yonex, Morinaga & Company, Miki House and AFH.
  - navane 2y ago
    330k good for a deskjob is quite an understatement
- p1esk 2y ago
  The problem is it is different 128 in each major, and the overlap across all four majors in a year is significantly less than 100. People move up and down the rankings a lot. To actually make a living you need to be consistently in the top 100, year after year. Your two examples are both very good players who spent most of the last 6 months well inside of top 100: in Feb, van Assche was #68 and Nishioka was #47. Of course they did well. Look at those who spent the last 12 months outside of top 100, and remember that total expenses of tour life can get as high as $20k/mo.
  - TeaBrain 2y ago
    The players that compete in each of the majors does not vary that widely. The most points come from the higher tiered tournaments and to get into the higher tiered tournaments, a player has to have a higher amount of points, which grants the player direct entry, which is how most players get into tournaments. The only alternatives to get into tournaments are entry by wildcard or qualification via a qualification tournament, each of which only grants entry to a small minority of players in any given tournament. For the US Open, the top 101 ATP ranking spots are given direct entry. As I mentioned, ranking spots are largely self-reinforcing, so the entries do not vary considerably. Also, players outside the top 100 are not spending $20k per month to tour. That is a wildly inaccurate even for most players inside the top 100.

In pro tennis only the top 100 players actually make more money than they spend.

by p1esk 2y ago

In pro tennis only the top 100 players actually make more money than they spend.

To be fair, the same could be said about a lot of gamers. People spend $1000+ on a gaming PC and even if they enjoy playing competitively, most of them never go pro. I wonder if pro tennis is a case of people not wanting to go pro or not being able to go pro. Edit: I think a handful of people are misunderstanding my point. I'm saying that not everything has to have a monetary return on investment. Even if the "opportunity cost" of spending all that time grinding is super high, the return is just the enjoyment that one gets from playing the game or from feeling accomplished to reach a certain goal/rank even if it's not pro level.

jncfhnb 2y ago
$1000k on a gaming pc is an extremely small investment compared to the time spent training to be competitive at anything.
hombre_fatal 2y ago
If it were just $1000, it would be a bargain. The real cost is the opportunity cost of grinding and never making it.
tpurves 2y ago
$1000 could be less than the costs of just flights to one weekend tennis tournament which, because of seeding, you're highly likely to go out in the first round as a low ranked player.
OfficeChad 2y ago
[dead]

TeaBrain 2y ago

This may have been true at one time, but it is not true now. 128 players qualify for the first round of each of the four major tournaments and for each, the players have a guaranteed payday even if they lose in the first round. For the 128 who qualify for the US Open, players will get over $80k for just playing the first round, even if they lose. For example, the 101st ranked ATP (men) player has made over $450k from prize money in just a little over half of this season. The 102nd ranked player has made over $330k so far. Considering that there are two more majors left this year which they'll likely qualify for, they'll likely make another several hundred thousand more at-least this year from just competition. Many of the top 150 tennis players often make the equivalent amount to their prize money or greater in sponsorships. The lack of sustainable income from just competition becomes more true once you look outside the top 150. The low ranking tennis players that the article referred to were outside the top 300, which meant that they were stuck playing the futures tournaments where there is little possibility for money. Conor Niland, who wrote the article, only briefly achieved a career high ranking of 129, but spent most of his career ranked outside of the top 300. https://www.atptour.com/en/players/luca-van-assche/v0dz/overview https://www.atptour.com/en/players/luca-van-assche/v0dz/over... https://www.atptour.com/en/players/yoshihito-nishioka/n732/overview https://www.atptour.com/en/players/yoshihito-nishioka/n732/o...

IncreasePosts 2y ago
$330k would be good for an individual with a desk job, but when you factor in the other costs to run the "enterprise" of a tennis player, what does the take home look like? IE how much does a tennis coach cost? Travel and lodging for tournaments. I'm assuming they might have a medical expert or nutritionist on the staff as well?
- TeaBrain 2y ago
  330k is his earnings from only a little over half of the season. It is probably only half of earnings this year also, considering that an equal amount is likely made from sponsorships, given that Yoshihito is Japan's second highest ranking ATP player. Top 150 players usually have separate sponsorships for both clothing and racquets. A quick search reveals Yoshihito has brand ties to Yonex, Morinaga & Company, Miki House and AFH.
- navane 2y ago
  330k good for a deskjob is quite an understatement
p1esk 2y ago
The problem is it is different 128 in each major, and the overlap across all four majors in a year is significantly less than 100. People move up and down the rankings a lot. To actually make a living you need to be consistently in the top 100, year after year. Your two examples are both very good players who spent most of the last 6 months well inside of top 100: in Feb, van Assche was #68 and Nishioka was #47. Of course they did well. Look at those who spent the last 12 months outside of top 100, and remember that total expenses of tour life can get as high as $20k/mo.
- TeaBrain 2y ago
  The players that compete in each of the majors does not vary that widely. The most points come from the higher tiered tournaments and to get into the higher tiered tournaments, a player has to have a higher amount of points, which grants the player direct entry, which is how most players get into tournaments. The only alternatives to get into tournaments are entry by wildcard or qualification via a qualification tournament, each of which only grants entry to a small minority of players in any given tournament. For the US Open, the top 101 ATP ranking spots are given direct entry. As I mentioned, ranking spots are largely self-reinforcing, so the entries do not vary considerably. Also, players outside the top 100 are not spending $20k per month to tour. That is a wildly inaccurate even for most players inside the top 100.