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I'm American and I've lived in Zurich for many years and visited Munich quite a bit. Hands down: Zurich. One of the most stunning places in the world. Expens

I'm American and I've lived in Zurich for many years and visited Munich quite a bit. Hands down: Zurich. One of the most stunning places in the world. Expensive, to be sure, but what you get for your money makes it worth it. Negatives: Don't expect to make friends, so try to find other expats. And you'll always be a second-class citizen if you're not Swiss (with the right name), learn to live with it. Rains a lot. Positives: Everything else. Clean, safe, perfect hiking and skiing (and even swimming in summer), the public transportation couldn't be better, etc.

throwAGIway 2y ago
Could you expand on the comparison to Munich, please? I can't imagine what could make it so much better it's worth the significant cost increase - unless you take advantage of the business opportunities I guess
- mytailorisrich 2y ago
  I can't answer on the comparison but I expect salaries in Zurich will be also quite higher than in Munich, so that differences in cost of living may not be an issue.
  - david927 2y ago
    Yeah, it's cost of living which is matched with higher salaries. Be very careful that you're adding that to the comparison. If you're not getting a commensurate higher salary, don't do it. What makes it worth it? That's a good question. It's a big economic question. People will say, "Milk costs more but you make more so it's the same as a place where you make less but milk, say, costs less." That's not true. The milk, for this example, in Switzerland is so much better, higher quality, etc. So it's not an apple to apples comparison. Plus, when you're buying non-local items, such as any electronics, for example, or you're saving/investing or you travel, now your higher salary is paying off. Edit: P.S. This is a rule of thumb I live by, having lived and worked in five countries: all things being equal otherwise (meaning personal preferences should be considered first), always always always go for the higher nominal income. Be careful in putting trust in things like PPP.
    - dauertewigkeit 2y ago
      I agree with you. Also taxes are generally higher in Germany.
- sillyfluke 2y ago
  I read the post as saying: Zurich, if cost of living is not an condideration at all. I don't known if anything in Munich can compete with a nice lakefront pad in Zurich. If cost is a consideration, Munich definately. The range of great and cheap nature options near Munich is countless. It's Austria's backyard, and hanging out in the Austrian Alps and lakes is a fraction of the price of the Swiss alternative.
steve1977 2y ago
Regarding making friends, I think quite a lot of that comes to language. Swiss kind of expect expats to learn the local language when they want to be integrated. Otherwise we kind of assume they are just “in transit” I guess. To make matters worse, the local language in Zurich is Swiss German which is different enough from German to probably count as its own language (which will be completely useless outside of Switzerland). And we’re not even easy to make friends with on our own. ;) Source: I’m Swiss, originally from the agglomeration of Zurich and have worked in many international companies/with many expat colleagues.
- 082349872349872 2y ago
  > And we’re not even easy to make friends with on our own. ;) Hint: there is an "english-speakers' Verein" > (which will be completely useless outside of Switzerland) And even within switzerland, it will probably be more useful in Ticino than in western switzerland, where the kids learn standard german in school.
  - steve1977 2y ago
    You could even argue that you’re better off speaking standard German in Basel than Swiss German with a Zurich accent ;)
    - 082349872349872 2y ago
      Swiss german: a language spoken by ~5 million people, who fail to agree on what the personal pronouns are or how to conjugate basic verbs like "to be" and "to do"...
      - david927 2y ago
        But Swiss German isn't a language, it's the name for a collection of languages, which don't need (nor try) to agree.
        2y ago
zerr 2y ago
> And you'll always be a second-class citizen if you're not Swiss (with the right name) Does this actually affect you? i.e. not taking in count an emotional side: career opportunities, the quality of private or public services (e.g. doctors might treat you with less care? The waiter might ignore you in a restaurant?), etc...
- david927 2y ago
  I wouldn't read too much into it; I'm literally heaping the highest praise I can on a city. I love Switzerland and I deeply love Zurich. Make no mistake. This is one of its downsides. > career opportunities: yes, it can affect you > the quality of private or public services: no > the emotional side: yes, a bit (why not take it into account?)

throwAGIway 2y ago

Could you expand on the comparison to Munich, please? I can't imagine what could make it so much better it's worth the significant cost increase - unless you take advantage of the business opportunities I guess

mytailorisrich 2y ago
I can't answer on the comparison but I expect salaries in Zurich will be also quite higher than in Munich, so that differences in cost of living may not be an issue.
- david927 2y ago
  Yeah, it's cost of living which is matched with higher salaries. Be very careful that you're adding that to the comparison. If you're not getting a commensurate higher salary, don't do it. What makes it worth it? That's a good question. It's a big economic question. People will say, "Milk costs more but you make more so it's the same as a place where you make less but milk, say, costs less." That's not true. The milk, for this example, in Switzerland is so much better, higher quality, etc. So it's not an apple to apples comparison. Plus, when you're buying non-local items, such as any electronics, for example, or you're saving/investing or you travel, now your higher salary is paying off. Edit: P.S. This is a rule of thumb I live by, having lived and worked in five countries: all things being equal otherwise (meaning personal preferences should be considered first), always always always go for the higher nominal income. Be careful in putting trust in things like PPP.
  - dauertewigkeit 2y ago
    I agree with you. Also taxes are generally higher in Germany.
sillyfluke 2y ago
I read the post as saying: Zurich, if cost of living is not an condideration at all. I don't known if anything in Munich can compete with a nice lakefront pad in Zurich. If cost is a consideration, Munich definately. The range of great and cheap nature options near Munich is countless. It's Austria's backyard, and hanging out in the Austrian Alps and lakes is a fraction of the price of the Swiss alternative.

steve1977 2y ago

Regarding making friends, I think quite a lot of that comes to language. Swiss kind of expect expats to learn the local language when they want to be integrated. Otherwise we kind of assume they are just “in transit” I guess. To make matters worse, the local language in Zurich is Swiss German which is different enough from German to probably count as its own language (which will be completely useless outside of Switzerland). And we’re not even easy to make friends with on our own. ;) Source: I’m Swiss, originally from the agglomeration of Zurich and have worked in many international companies/with many expat colleagues.

082349872349872 2y ago
> And we’re not even easy to make friends with on our own. ;) Hint: there is an "english-speakers' Verein" > (which will be completely useless outside of Switzerland) And even within switzerland, it will probably be more useful in Ticino than in western switzerland, where the kids learn standard german in school.
- steve1977 2y ago
  You could even argue that you’re better off speaking standard German in Basel than Swiss German with a Zurich accent ;)
  - 082349872349872 2y ago
    Swiss german: a language spoken by ~5 million people, who fail to agree on what the personal pronouns are or how to conjugate basic verbs like "to be" and "to do"...
    - david927 2y ago
      But Swiss German isn't a language, it's the name for a collection of languages, which don't need (nor try) to agree.
      - 2y ago

zerr 2y ago

> And you'll always be a second-class citizen if you're not Swiss (with the right name) Does this actually affect you? i.e. not taking in count an emotional side: career opportunities, the quality of private or public services (e.g. doctors might treat you with less care? The waiter might ignore you in a restaurant?), etc...

david927 2y ago
I wouldn't read too much into it; I'm literally heaping the highest praise I can on a city. I love Switzerland and I deeply love Zurich. Make no mistake. This is one of its downsides. > career opportunities: yes, it can affect you > the quality of private or public services: no > the emotional side: yes, a bit (why not take it into account?)