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>Yes but people who have been listening have also been dreading this coming for years. Why are they dreading this? I find it strange how so many people are ups

>Yes but people who have been listening have also been dreading this coming for years. Why are they dreading this? I find it strange how so many people are upset that the Supreme Court is forcing Congress to do its job, which is pass laws.

saint_fiasco 2y ago
> forcing Congress to do its job > Why are they dreading this? You answered your own question there. Congress should do its job, but as a matter of fact it is not doing its job and it is not going to do its job anytime soon. The Court might be technically, legally, philosophically correct in removing the inelegant hacks that the previous courts set up to route around the fact that Congress does not do its job. But in the meantime, Congress is still not doing its job.
- GenerWork 2y ago
  I'm talking about the "people who have been listening to the court and dreading this". Who are these listeners who remain undefined? Are they congressmembers? Are they pundits?
  - tankenmate 2y ago
    Mainly corporate lawyers, legal scholars (mainly academic institutions), and public interest lawyers. The people in the trenches.
  - saint_fiasco 2y ago
    The obvious example is pro-choice people who wish that Congress would pass a law that favors their position, and have been forced to rely on weird Supreme Court rulings by activist judges instead. You can argue that the pro-choice people should just accept that Congress does not decide in their favor, that this is a democracy and in a democracy sometimes you lose. But it's not like Congress has decided in favor of their opponents either. They just decide nothing. If Congress actually decided one way or the other then at least people would know where they stand and could stop feeling anxious about it.
  - HDThoreaun 2y ago
    Me. I like regulatory agencies to be able to regulate, and unless congress figures out it’s shit quickly there will be big problems.
throwup238 2y ago
That's a nice catch 22 they've got there. Congress has been passing laws for decades under the assumption that the Chevron case is settled precedent. Now they're getting rid of it because... Congress needed to instead pass laws completely ignoring the courts ruling?
tankenmate 2y ago
But the effect of this ruling will mean that Congress will have to pass an order of magnitude more laws; and there is only so much time for debates (which are required in order to pass laws). Or, executive bodies won't be able to do what is required to keep country wide productivity up. This is the equivalent of requiring a stand up meeting for every commit to a repo; it's plainly obvious that over time it will kill USA's productivity. This is judicial drag on the economy.
- mike_hearn 2y ago
  It's worth noting that other comparable countries don't delegate law-making power to the executive in the same way the US does. For example in the UK only Parliament may make laws, the civil service can draft it but that's the limit (post-EU-exit that is, the EU is something else). There is a concept called a statutory instrument in which the process is optimized by allowing changes to be made to law either by "laying them before" Parliament, in which case only approval or rejection is possible, not amendment. Annulling new regulations in this manner is extremely rare however. Or in some cases it's allowed for the responsible Minister or committee of MPs to make the changes directly, which in practice means they sign off on changes proposed by the civil service. This is usually only the case for very minor changes like updating thresholds, shutting down roads for construction work etc. Despite the inability of the civil service to directly change the law, the UK is not suffering from a deficit of regulations. So there's no reason in principle it should harm productivity, unless you mean, productivity of the government itself.
  - enragedcacti 2y ago
    It seems like an important distinction that unlike the US their government intentionally collapses if the legislature no longer supports the executive. Given two separate legislatures, the filibuster, the presidential veto , fixed terms, etc. it might just make sense for the US government to work a little differently.
  - jellicle 2y ago
    As an FYI: Parliamentary governments routinely delegate regulation-making power to the particular Ministries, in exactly the same way as the USA Congress delegates it to executive agencies. https://www.parliament.uk/about/how/laws/secondary-legislation/ https://www.parliament.uk/about/how/laws/secondary-legislati...
dctoedt 2y ago
> I find it strange how so many people are upset that the Supreme Court is forcing Congress to do its job, which is pass laws. That's the Assume a Can Opener fallacy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assume_a_can_opener https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assume_a_can_opener
esoterica 2y ago
Congress is broken and structurally incapable of passing laws under this level of political polarization because there are too many veto points (bicameral legislature, the filibuster, the presidential veto) for any law to get passed even if it's supported by the majority of legislators and the majority of voters.
quickthrowman 2y ago
> Why are they dreading this? I find it strange how so many people are upset that the Supreme Court is forcing Congress to do its job, which is pass laws. Congress is extremely dysfunctional and won’t be able to keep up. Corporations are going to exploit the lag in rule making by fucking over individuals like you and me. That’s why I’m concerned.

saint_fiasco 2y ago

> forcing Congress to do its job > Why are they dreading this? You answered your own question there. Congress should do its job, but as a matter of fact it is not doing its job and it is not going to do its job anytime soon. The Court might be technically, legally, philosophically correct in removing the inelegant hacks that the previous courts set up to route around the fact that Congress does not do its job. But in the meantime, Congress is still not doing its job.

GenerWork 2y ago
I'm talking about the "people who have been listening to the court and dreading this". Who are these listeners who remain undefined? Are they congressmembers? Are they pundits?
- tankenmate 2y ago
  Mainly corporate lawyers, legal scholars (mainly academic institutions), and public interest lawyers. The people in the trenches.
- saint_fiasco 2y ago
  The obvious example is pro-choice people who wish that Congress would pass a law that favors their position, and have been forced to rely on weird Supreme Court rulings by activist judges instead. You can argue that the pro-choice people should just accept that Congress does not decide in their favor, that this is a democracy and in a democracy sometimes you lose. But it's not like Congress has decided in favor of their opponents either. They just decide nothing. If Congress actually decided one way or the other then at least people would know where they stand and could stop feeling anxious about it.
- HDThoreaun 2y ago
  Me. I like regulatory agencies to be able to regulate, and unless congress figures out it’s shit quickly there will be big problems.

throwup238 2y ago

That's a nice catch 22 they've got there. Congress has been passing laws for decades under the assumption that the Chevron case is settled precedent. Now they're getting rid of it because... Congress needed to instead pass laws completely ignoring the courts ruling?

tankenmate 2y ago

But the effect of this ruling will mean that Congress will have to pass an order of magnitude more laws; and there is only so much time for debates (which are required in order to pass laws). Or, executive bodies won't be able to do what is required to keep country wide productivity up. This is the equivalent of requiring a stand up meeting for every commit to a repo; it's plainly obvious that over time it will kill USA's productivity. This is judicial drag on the economy.

mike_hearn 2y ago
It's worth noting that other comparable countries don't delegate law-making power to the executive in the same way the US does. For example in the UK only Parliament may make laws, the civil service can draft it but that's the limit (post-EU-exit that is, the EU is something else). There is a concept called a statutory instrument in which the process is optimized by allowing changes to be made to law either by "laying them before" Parliament, in which case only approval or rejection is possible, not amendment. Annulling new regulations in this manner is extremely rare however. Or in some cases it's allowed for the responsible Minister or committee of MPs to make the changes directly, which in practice means they sign off on changes proposed by the civil service. This is usually only the case for very minor changes like updating thresholds, shutting down roads for construction work etc. Despite the inability of the civil service to directly change the law, the UK is not suffering from a deficit of regulations. So there's no reason in principle it should harm productivity, unless you mean, productivity of the government itself.
- enragedcacti 2y ago
  It seems like an important distinction that unlike the US their government intentionally collapses if the legislature no longer supports the executive. Given two separate legislatures, the filibuster, the presidential veto , fixed terms, etc. it might just make sense for the US government to work a little differently.
- jellicle 2y ago
  As an FYI: Parliamentary governments routinely delegate regulation-making power to the particular Ministries, in exactly the same way as the USA Congress delegates it to executive agencies. https://www.parliament.uk/about/how/laws/secondary-legislation/ https://www.parliament.uk/about/how/laws/secondary-legislati...

dctoedt 2y ago

> I find it strange how so many people are upset that the Supreme Court is forcing Congress to do its job, which is pass laws. That's the Assume a Can Opener fallacy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assume_a_can_opener https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assume_a_can_opener

esoterica 2y ago

Congress is broken and structurally incapable of passing laws under this level of political polarization because there are too many veto points (bicameral legislature, the filibuster, the presidential veto) for any law to get passed even if it's supported by the majority of legislators and the majority of voters.

quickthrowman 2y ago

> Why are they dreading this? I find it strange how so many people are upset that the Supreme Court is forcing Congress to do its job, which is pass laws. Congress is extremely dysfunctional and won’t be able to keep up. Corporations are going to exploit the lag in rule making by fucking over individuals like you and me. That’s why I’m concerned.