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It's not about the application of law. It's about the ambiguity of law. If anything, they'll need to rely on more expertise now, so they can craft laws that are
by stronglikedan 2y ago
It's not about the application of law. It's about the ambiguity of law. If anything, they'll need to rely on more expertise now, so they can craft laws that aren't open to interpretation. This is a fantastic decision on the part of the court.
- radley 2y ago> It's about the ambiguity of law. If anything, they'll need to rely on more expertise now, so they can craft laws that aren't open to interpretation. I doubt that granting Congress more power will inspire them to be less political, more responsible, and more governed by facts. Particularly when the party that made this decision has veered completely in the opposite direction. If anything, it will be used to prioritize "faith" over fact, like what we've seen in Oklahoma and Mississippi.
- rayiner 2y agoIf that party can win elections by doing that, that’s what should happen. “Expertise” carries zero weight in a democracy other than its ability to persuade voters.
- radley 2y agoBut historically, it ends up causing a great deal of harm.
- thedragonline 2y agoAs an aside, I've always wondered how society will drive the response to climate change into a ditch - it'll be at the hands of lawyers (because, you know, they are policy experts).
- TylerE 2y agoYou’re looking at it. One of the main goals of this push is utterly defanging agencies like the EPA
- chasd00 2y agoIf this defangs the EPA then it needed de-fanging. If the EPA can't make a better case for a rule than "my way or the highway" then it's a bad rule.
- anigbrowl 2y agoThe EPA can make the most reasonable rule possible, based on available facts, expertise, and public consultation, and have it overturned by a handful of judicial partisans on behalf of people willing to throw money at litigation. I think we'll see a huge increase in forum shopping and demands for injunctive relief designed to grind any kind of regulatory action on any topic to a halt. In many cases litigants will bring cases without any expectation or intention of succeeding on the merits, but rather with the sole goal of tying things up in court for the duration of an electoral cycle.
- thedragonline 2y agoFrom the mouth of John Roberts himself: "courts must exercise their independent judgment in deciding whether an agency has acted within its statutory authority." This is not going to end well.
- dctoedt 2y ago> If that party can win elections by doing that, that’s what should happen. “Expertise” carries zero weight in a democracy other than its ability to persuade voters. That's a pretty idealized view: The vast majority of voters just want competent governance, with guard rails to make sure the governors don't go too far, because they (the voters) have lives to live and other things on their minds. As to persuading voters, we should remember the joke about Islamist parties' agitation for "democracy": One man, one vote — once.
- rayiner 2y agoNo, it’s fundamental to what democracy means and is. If we wanted “competent governance” we would just have China or Singapore run our country.
- dctoedt 2y agoIt's a spectrum, not a binary choice.
- radley 2y agoOr... just hear me out... we could hire experts in various fields, give them general principles to follow, let them work out the details, give them the authority to enforce it, and maintain the right to step in if they overreach. But yeah, "opinions are greater than facts" is technically a very democratic way to do things.
- notaustinpowers 2y ago> Expertise carries zero weight in a democracy other than it's ability to persuade voters. Would you rather the "holistic healer" who says only drinking green juice for a week to "detox" your kidneys make laws? Or the person who actually went to med school for 12 years.
- bluGill 2y ago[flagged]
- 0xdde 2y agoThis is just throwing out the baby with the bath water. You really think the proportion of "frauds" is the same among doctors and among holistic healers?
- bluGill 2y agoNo, but I think frauds will be over represented in politics.
- notaustinpowers 2y agoIf you don't trust professionals or experts in their field then there's no reason to have a discussion on this. Let's just replace the government with a Magic 8 Ball.
- xboxnolifes 2y agoCongress isn't being granted more power here. They're being granted more (their original) responsibility.
- eightysixfour 2y agoOr... they are losing their power to delegate details to other parties when they choose to do so.
- xboxnolifes 2y agoThey can still delegate. They just need to be more specific in what powers they are delegating and to whom. The people they delegate to cannot give themselves more power than they were originally given.
- TeeMassive 2y ago> doubt that granting Congress more power will inspire them to be less political Now imagine what unelected government officials who play the revolving doors game with the industry they're supposed to regulate can do.
- Gormo 2y ago> I doubt that granting Congress more power will inspire them to be less political, I'm not sure I can wrap my head around the expectation that a political institution should be 'less political' -- can you explain what you are getting at here? > more governed by facts. Fact substantiate 'is', but politics is about 'ought', and particularly, reconciling the contradictory 'ought's that prevail in varying quarters of society. Expecting politics to be 'governed by facts' requires taking a single set of values and interests for granted, which effectively means codifying one faction's ambitions into law at the expense of everyone else.
- impalallama 2y agoAmbiguity is built in the very nature of language. Good luck writing anything doesn't have some ambiguity built in...
- lovethevoid 2y agoThis doesn’t prevent writing laws open to interpretation at all.
- p_j_w 2y ago>so they can craft laws that aren't open to interpretation. In what world is this even humanly possible? Is this something conservatives actually believe can happen? If so, then they're irrational almost beyond repair.
- rustcleaner 2y agoAlgorithmic law? It's what we've been [weakly] doing for millennia.
- vkou 2y agoThe only people who believe law is, has been, or will ever be algorithmic are SWEs to whom everything looks like a hammer.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- ABCLAW 2y ago>If anything, they'll need to rely on more expertise now, so they can craft laws that aren't open to interpretation. Every law is open to interpretation. If tech can barely secure the doors on machines that execute instructions near-flawlessly, you think we can construct flawless frameworks out of inherently ambiguous linguistic building blocks run and understood by deeply human executors? This just plain doesn't work when the rubber meets the road. Someone's going to make a choice, and SCOTUS just decided unilaterally that it's going to be a body that hasn't been able to decide anything productively for a decade. This isn't about creating better structures for the analysis of rules; it's about gutting the regulatory capacity of agencies.
- tiahura 2y agoThat’s why the police should determine innocence and guilt, they’re the experts.