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Obvious check #1: Congress gets its sh*t together, and stops writing endless vague blather into law. Obvious check #2: Congress enlarges the Supreme Count to

Obvious check #1: Congress gets its sh*t together, and stops writing endless vague blather into law. Obvious check #2: Congress enlarges the Supreme Count to 21 Justices. And lets the President know that his nominees for the 12 new positions will need to understand who's the real boss.

dubcanada 2y ago
Why stop at 21, why not get 1 supreme court from each state? You could get 2 if you wanted to be spicy and setup a sort of room for them all to debate in. Then after they heard the debates they could vote on the matter and if it passes it gets written into law. A sort of congress...
- bell-cot 2y ago
  I was thinking "enough to routinely overrule the current 9 Justices". Representing individual states, as such, is supposed to be the job of Congressmen. And - with how low-functioning Congress is looking, these days, patterning anything new after them is probably a bad idea.
  - AnimalMuppet 2y ago
    So Congress is dysfunctional. The Supreme Court is semi-functional, but functioning in a way that you don't like. So you want Congress to vote in a bunch of new people to fix the Supreme Court. Why do you think that will work, instead of be ruined by the usual Congressional dysfunction? And, if the party in power adds enough Supreme Court justices to routinely overturn the current 9, what makes you think that when the other side is in power, they won't add enough to overturn your 12? The Supreme Court is not supposed to bend with the wind of every political election. It's by design.
    - vlovich123 2y ago
      > The Supreme Court is not supposed to bend with the wind of every political election. It’s by design Funny. Seems like it bent pretty hard in the last election. Why should we only honor the bends to the right?
      - r2_pilot 2y ago
        Particularly given McConnell's... Interpretations... Of how his obligated duties were fulfilled in regards to the timeliness of actions taken to ensure that such seats were filled.
      - luxuryballs 2y ago
        did it though?
        vlovich123 2y ago
        Are you asking if it did bend to the right? You’re asking if an additional conservative vote shift in a hairline composition shifted the balance? Would you be asking the same if it was a 6-3 liberal majority? This courts been in power for 8 years and has overturned 3 major ways that the government operates: 1. Roe v Wade overturned so that the government is back in charge of reproductive rights decisions instead of leaving it as a deeply personal decision for a family to make on their own. There’s pretty clearly a lack of any evidence that late term abortions are a cavalier thing. When it gets that late it’s not a change of mind thing 99.999% of the time. 2. Brady and similar decisions basically removing congress’ and states’ abilities to regulate guns 3. Chevron doctrine overturned so unless congress writes impossible laws the courts get to arbitrarily define ambiguities even though it was delegated to the executive to create justifiable well researched exposition of those ambiguities. Basically, this court has already delivered 3 major decisions shifting American politics in pretty drastic ways in the 8 years. This is certainly not a liberal or status quo court. And the court itself has serious perception issues of accepting gifts and bribes (and significantly reducing the definition of what counts as corruption in the first place, which is well outside their mandate considering these are actually laws congress passed). They’re badly in need of cultural reform as is congress and in both scenarios adjusting the number of representatives and the number of justices is called for to relieve the pressure that’s been building.
    - ebiester 2y ago
      You act as if this is the first time that expanding the court has been discussed. Congress has yet to do this because it will never pass - at least unless one party gets a filibuster-proof majority in the senate or the filibuster is removed.
    - bell-cot 2y ago
      > The Supreme Court is not supposed to bend with the wind of every political election. It's by design. Looking at a few Supreme Court's rulings, say - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_v._Gore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_v._Gore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_v._Anderson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_v._Anderson - I'd be inclined to say that the Supreme Court's design is to bend the results of every political election to suit their own wishes.
    - intended 2y ago
      >The Supreme Court is not supposed to bend with the wind of every political election. It's by design. The design that can and has been undermined and bent on partisan lines, because of a dedicated campaign to achieve this very goal?
- tshaddox 2y ago
  Increasing the size of the court isn’t a slippery slope to somehow making justices elected by states/districts. It’s not like as soon as you get too many justices it turns into a legislature. The interesting differences between the legislative and judicial branch is not the number of people (moreover, the Supreme Court is not exactly the entirety of the federal judicial branch).
AnimalMuppet 2y ago
> And lets the President know that his nominees for the 12 new positions will need to understand who's the real boss. And who, in your view, is supposed to be the real boss? Congress? Or the President? The Supreme Court is supposed to be independent. Changing that needs a much higher threshold than "bell-cot doesn't like some recent Supreme Court decisions".
- themaninthedark 2y ago
  Exactly, the statement is very telling of the lack of understanding of how our government is supposed to operate, how and why the system is set up the way it is.
- blacksqr 2y ago
  I have a fantasy solution that I know will never be implemented, but in my mind resolves all objections to expanding the court. Promote all eleven judges in the DC circuit court of appeals to the Supreme Court and leave the appeals court empty. For each vacancy that occurs on the Supreme Court, the president gets to pick one judge for the appeals court, until the Supreme Court justice count is back to 9 and the appeals court judge count is back to 11; at which time things go back to status quo ante. This would allow the Supreme Court to be rebalanced without the president packing the court with partisan choices. Rather, it respects the record of judicial confirmations for the appeals court going back almost 40 years and several presidential administrations. It would increase the number of perspectives on the court and make the Justices work harder to find consensus, rather than the majority being able to lazily fall back on pet legal theories that are out of the mainstream. It would counter and largely nullify the Republican strategy of targeting the Supreme Court with nomination of extremist and underqualified candidates with significant questions about their backgrounds, and confirming the nominees with dubious political maneuvering. It would be hard for Republicans to escalate; i.e., if a Democratic president added 12 slots to the Supreme court, what's to stop a Republican president and congress adding 20 more at first opportunity, and so on. Republicans could choose to elevate another court's judges to the Supreme Court, but that would tend to further balance the Court and make decisions more unpredictable, rather than produce a clear partisan advantage. It would take the Supreme Court nomination issue out of presidential politics for a generation.
vundercind 2y ago
One-per-circuit, at least, would be a good change. Not as many as you’re proposing, but does make sense.

dubcanada 2y ago

Why stop at 21, why not get 1 supreme court from each state? You could get 2 if you wanted to be spicy and setup a sort of room for them all to debate in. Then after they heard the debates they could vote on the matter and if it passes it gets written into law. A sort of congress...

bell-cot 2y ago
I was thinking "enough to routinely overrule the current 9 Justices". Representing individual states, as such, is supposed to be the job of Congressmen. And - with how low-functioning Congress is looking, these days, patterning anything new after them is probably a bad idea.
- AnimalMuppet 2y ago
  So Congress is dysfunctional. The Supreme Court is semi-functional, but functioning in a way that you don't like. So you want Congress to vote in a bunch of new people to fix the Supreme Court. Why do you think that will work, instead of be ruined by the usual Congressional dysfunction? And, if the party in power adds enough Supreme Court justices to routinely overturn the current 9, what makes you think that when the other side is in power, they won't add enough to overturn your 12? The Supreme Court is not supposed to bend with the wind of every political election. It's by design.
  - vlovich123 2y ago
    > The Supreme Court is not supposed to bend with the wind of every political election. It’s by design Funny. Seems like it bent pretty hard in the last election. Why should we only honor the bends to the right?
    - r2_pilot 2y ago
      Particularly given McConnell's... Interpretations... Of how his obligated duties were fulfilled in regards to the timeliness of actions taken to ensure that such seats were filled.
    - luxuryballs 2y ago
      did it though?
      - vlovich123 2y ago
        Are you asking if it did bend to the right? You’re asking if an additional conservative vote shift in a hairline composition shifted the balance? Would you be asking the same if it was a 6-3 liberal majority? This courts been in power for 8 years and has overturned 3 major ways that the government operates: 1. Roe v Wade overturned so that the government is back in charge of reproductive rights decisions instead of leaving it as a deeply personal decision for a family to make on their own. There’s pretty clearly a lack of any evidence that late term abortions are a cavalier thing. When it gets that late it’s not a change of mind thing 99.999% of the time. 2. Brady and similar decisions basically removing congress’ and states’ abilities to regulate guns 3. Chevron doctrine overturned so unless congress writes impossible laws the courts get to arbitrarily define ambiguities even though it was delegated to the executive to create justifiable well researched exposition of those ambiguities. Basically, this court has already delivered 3 major decisions shifting American politics in pretty drastic ways in the 8 years. This is certainly not a liberal or status quo court. And the court itself has serious perception issues of accepting gifts and bribes (and significantly reducing the definition of what counts as corruption in the first place, which is well outside their mandate considering these are actually laws congress passed). They’re badly in need of cultural reform as is congress and in both scenarios adjusting the number of representatives and the number of justices is called for to relieve the pressure that’s been building.
  - ebiester 2y ago
    You act as if this is the first time that expanding the court has been discussed. Congress has yet to do this because it will never pass - at least unless one party gets a filibuster-proof majority in the senate or the filibuster is removed.
  - bell-cot 2y ago
    > The Supreme Court is not supposed to bend with the wind of every political election. It's by design. Looking at a few Supreme Court's rulings, say - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_v._Gore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_v._Gore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_v._Anderson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_v._Anderson - I'd be inclined to say that the Supreme Court's design is to bend the results of every political election to suit their own wishes.
  - intended 2y ago
    >The Supreme Court is not supposed to bend with the wind of every political election. It's by design. The design that can and has been undermined and bent on partisan lines, because of a dedicated campaign to achieve this very goal?
tshaddox 2y ago
Increasing the size of the court isn’t a slippery slope to somehow making justices elected by states/districts. It’s not like as soon as you get too many justices it turns into a legislature. The interesting differences between the legislative and judicial branch is not the number of people (moreover, the Supreme Court is not exactly the entirety of the federal judicial branch).

AnimalMuppet 2y ago

> And lets the President know that his nominees for the 12 new positions will need to understand who's the real boss. And who, in your view, is supposed to be the real boss? Congress? Or the President? The Supreme Court is supposed to be independent. Changing that needs a much higher threshold than "bell-cot doesn't like some recent Supreme Court decisions".

themaninthedark 2y ago
Exactly, the statement is very telling of the lack of understanding of how our government is supposed to operate, how and why the system is set up the way it is.
blacksqr 2y ago
I have a fantasy solution that I know will never be implemented, but in my mind resolves all objections to expanding the court. Promote all eleven judges in the DC circuit court of appeals to the Supreme Court and leave the appeals court empty. For each vacancy that occurs on the Supreme Court, the president gets to pick one judge for the appeals court, until the Supreme Court justice count is back to 9 and the appeals court judge count is back to 11; at which time things go back to status quo ante. This would allow the Supreme Court to be rebalanced without the president packing the court with partisan choices. Rather, it respects the record of judicial confirmations for the appeals court going back almost 40 years and several presidential administrations. It would increase the number of perspectives on the court and make the Justices work harder to find consensus, rather than the majority being able to lazily fall back on pet legal theories that are out of the mainstream. It would counter and largely nullify the Republican strategy of targeting the Supreme Court with nomination of extremist and underqualified candidates with significant questions about their backgrounds, and confirming the nominees with dubious political maneuvering. It would be hard for Republicans to escalate; i.e., if a Democratic president added 12 slots to the Supreme court, what's to stop a Republican president and congress adding 20 more at first opportunity, and so on. Republicans could choose to elevate another court's judges to the Supreme Court, but that would tend to further balance the Court and make decisions more unpredictable, rather than produce a clear partisan advantage. It would take the Supreme Court nomination issue out of presidential politics for a generation.

vundercind 2y ago

One-per-circuit, at least, would be a good change. Not as many as you’re proposing, but does make sense.