3 ms·

I'm reviewing the budget for our condo now and some of the renovation projects have a contingency budget of 25%. You would think that was overkill but the last

by yardie 2y ago

I'm reviewing the budget for our condo now and some of the renovation projects have a contingency budget of 25%. You would think that was overkill but the last project was an elevator upgrade where the city inspector sat on the permit for almost a year.

bluGill 2y ago
Make sure you ask all residents to contact their city representative on this. If politicians don't feel pressure they won't do anything.
- yardie 2y ago
  In fact that is what we did. Just 50-100 pissed off residents mail and phone bombed the city until we got a response. The inspector made the excuse that he issued the permit months ago. But the filing portal had it on the day after our campaign. We ended up burning through the contingency because this project started right at the beginning of COVID. Parts and labor suddenly became scarce.
pc86 2y ago
There's a simple (but not easy) fix to this. After 30 days of no movement, permits are issued automatically and any fees paid are returned out of that department's budget, regardless of where the permit fees actually go. The default response to government inaction is typically a) the citizen can't do whatever thing they're trying to do without violating the law, and b) nothing bad happens to the bureaucrats not doing their jobs. If those two things inverted you'd see government become more efficient overnight.
- asah 2y ago
  I like that but alas, bureaucrats will optimize this to happen frequently then use this to justify more budget.
- mensetmanusman 2y ago
  Yes, and if you tie it to their paycheck, you might get more action.
  - pc86 2y ago
    I think this has been tried before and there are issues with Constitutionality, qualified immunity, etc. but I am not an attorney. Better to make sure the penalties stay at the official level, but also to make sure the people in these jobs are elected and not appointed so there is real accountability.
    - immibis 2y ago
      Elections do such a good job of accountability...
      - bombcar 2y ago
        Elections suffer from the bobcat problem - if something like a permit is only pulled five times in your life, you'll rarely, if ever, be affected. But those who are may go through hell, and yet the approval rating remains high. https://xkcd.com/325/ https://xkcd.com/325/ - "You can do this one in every 30 times and still have 97% positive feedback."
      - pc86 2y ago
        They are certainly more accountable than someone appointed by a politician. If you have a real issue with an elected official they're at least somewhat incentivized to listen to you. This is especially true at the level we're talking about - local government where they're dealing with constituents dozens of times a day every day. These elections are decided by a few hundred people at most - often by a few dozen. Yes it falls apart when you start talking about US Senators and the like but I'd argue that's a problem of scale and not a failing of the electoral model generally.
- thmsths 2y ago
  I won't comment on the specific numbers or enforcement mechanisms. But I strongly agree that we need reasonable SLAs for the government. My only worry would be how to deal with abuse.
steveBK123 2y ago
Anyone who thinks NYC simply needs to pass more laws & taxes should sit on a condo/coop board for a few years. Thankless job, and dealing with the city bureaucracy is awful. Lot of mechanisms setup to punish & tax buildings but not to facilitate the timely curing of whatever they are fining you over. One favorite was after an elevator incident a few years ago, the city passed some new law that required mostly software updates to elevators. It was essentially an update to prevent elevator repairmen from overriding the safety mechanism preventing motion when the door is open. So putting a safety on the safety. However of course there are only like 2 companies in the city and they colluded on how much they'd charge. So in effect it was a $10k per elevator tax on every residential building in the city. Not huge in the grand scheme of things, but in my condo that was a random 4% of budget blown away at the stroke of a pen. And they do this all the time. We had to do facade inspections and the city institutes all sorts of rules & fines around it, but then we ran into a stubborn neighbor with axe to grind with sponsor disallowing access on adjacent side for our scaffolding. City of course does nothing to force compliance by neighbor, it's your problem. Eventually had to be paid off in some manner. Very much city of no.
- asah 2y ago
  I'll take the city bureaucracy any day, over the stupid, entitled, schmucky owners taking out their frustrations on people just trying to help.
  - steveBK123 2y ago
    Absolutely. Was the worst job I ever had, and it's unpaid. I even worked retail in high school & Wall Street for 20 years. Condo board fights are nasty, personal and 24/7. Most of your neighbors are quietly happy with the operation of the building, and 2-5% of your neighbors are insane. We dealt with everything from threats of lawsuits and complaints filed with the state, repeat 1000 word complaint emails, texts on nights & weekends, a group running a shadow building wide mailing list to complain & collaborate on deposing existing board, etc. The biggest complainers were not people who had leaks or actual problems. Actual problems are easily resolved, and BAU for building management. Instead it was people who wanted to lobby furniture replaced yet again, or were unhappy with the fading paint on the back side of the building no one sees from the street. Generally they were underemployed and/or mid-divorce. These peoples problems can never be solved. The best part of getting off the board was watching a few of these nuts get on the board and start fighting each other instead of bothering me.

by yardie 2y ago

bluGill 2y ago

Make sure you ask all residents to contact their city representative on this. If politicians don't feel pressure they won't do anything.

yardie 2y ago
In fact that is what we did. Just 50-100 pissed off residents mail and phone bombed the city until we got a response. The inspector made the excuse that he issued the permit months ago. But the filing portal had it on the day after our campaign. We ended up burning through the contingency because this project started right at the beginning of COVID. Parts and labor suddenly became scarce.

pc86 2y ago

There's a simple (but not easy) fix to this. After 30 days of no movement, permits are issued automatically and any fees paid are returned out of that department's budget, regardless of where the permit fees actually go. The default response to government inaction is typically a) the citizen can't do whatever thing they're trying to do without violating the law, and b) nothing bad happens to the bureaucrats not doing their jobs. If those two things inverted you'd see government become more efficient overnight.

asah 2y ago
I like that but alas, bureaucrats will optimize this to happen frequently then use this to justify more budget.
mensetmanusman 2y ago
Yes, and if you tie it to their paycheck, you might get more action.
- pc86 2y ago
  I think this has been tried before and there are issues with Constitutionality, qualified immunity, etc. but I am not an attorney. Better to make sure the penalties stay at the official level, but also to make sure the people in these jobs are elected and not appointed so there is real accountability.
  - immibis 2y ago
    Elections do such a good job of accountability...
    - bombcar 2y ago
      Elections suffer from the bobcat problem - if something like a permit is only pulled five times in your life, you'll rarely, if ever, be affected. But those who are may go through hell, and yet the approval rating remains high. https://xkcd.com/325/ https://xkcd.com/325/ - "You can do this one in every 30 times and still have 97% positive feedback."
    - pc86 2y ago
      They are certainly more accountable than someone appointed by a politician. If you have a real issue with an elected official they're at least somewhat incentivized to listen to you. This is especially true at the level we're talking about - local government where they're dealing with constituents dozens of times a day every day. These elections are decided by a few hundred people at most - often by a few dozen. Yes it falls apart when you start talking about US Senators and the like but I'd argue that's a problem of scale and not a failing of the electoral model generally.
thmsths 2y ago
I won't comment on the specific numbers or enforcement mechanisms. But I strongly agree that we need reasonable SLAs for the government. My only worry would be how to deal with abuse.

steveBK123 2y ago

Anyone who thinks NYC simply needs to pass more laws & taxes should sit on a condo/coop board for a few years. Thankless job, and dealing with the city bureaucracy is awful. Lot of mechanisms setup to punish & tax buildings but not to facilitate the timely curing of whatever they are fining you over. One favorite was after an elevator incident a few years ago, the city passed some new law that required mostly software updates to elevators. It was essentially an update to prevent elevator repairmen from overriding the safety mechanism preventing motion when the door is open. So putting a safety on the safety. However of course there are only like 2 companies in the city and they colluded on how much they'd charge. So in effect it was a $10k per elevator tax on every residential building in the city. Not huge in the grand scheme of things, but in my condo that was a random 4% of budget blown away at the stroke of a pen. And they do this all the time. We had to do facade inspections and the city institutes all sorts of rules & fines around it, but then we ran into a stubborn neighbor with axe to grind with sponsor disallowing access on adjacent side for our scaffolding. City of course does nothing to force compliance by neighbor, it's your problem. Eventually had to be paid off in some manner. Very much city of no.

asah 2y ago
I'll take the city bureaucracy any day, over the stupid, entitled, schmucky owners taking out their frustrations on people just trying to help.
- steveBK123 2y ago
  Absolutely. Was the worst job I ever had, and it's unpaid. I even worked retail in high school & Wall Street for 20 years. Condo board fights are nasty, personal and 24/7. Most of your neighbors are quietly happy with the operation of the building, and 2-5% of your neighbors are insane. We dealt with everything from threats of lawsuits and complaints filed with the state, repeat 1000 word complaint emails, texts on nights & weekends, a group running a shadow building wide mailing list to complain & collaborate on deposing existing board, etc. The biggest complainers were not people who had leaks or actual problems. Actual problems are easily resolved, and BAU for building management. Instead it was people who wanted to lobby furniture replaced yet again, or were unhappy with the fading paint on the back side of the building no one sees from the street. Generally they were underemployed and/or mid-divorce. These peoples problems can never be solved. The best part of getting off the board was watching a few of these nuts get on the board and start fighting each other instead of bothering me.