6 ms·

> Rhino horns are used for their "traditional" medicine ingredients The level of radiation is non-toxic to rhinos in their horns, but extremely toxic if ingest

> Rhino horns are used for their "traditional" medicine ingredients The level of radiation is non-toxic to rhinos in their horns, but extremely toxic if ingested as a "traditional" medicine. The "product" is ruined.

omgJustTest 2y ago
Not fully ruined... since the injections are typically not loose contamination, for fear that it migrates into the rhino via capillary action or irradiates the rhino more than people are comfortable with. Smugglers would likely be able to use simple, cheap detectors to remove these. Potentially they don't remove the pils, simply grind the horn + source into medicine... the amount of radiation will not cause acute effects to the person who ingests it and will likely just cause some "unexplainable" tumor or system failure later in life or after a prolonged consumption.
- shiandow 2y ago
  Honestly I'm a bit confused, the descriptions seem contradictory or require an extraordinary level of fine tuning. If you just insert a capsule of radioactive material, it's easy to make it (extremely) poisonous, easily detectable and harmless to the rhino. But I don't see a way to do all three at once. If you just wanted to kill the consumers a small amount of an alpha emitter would work quite well, but would be hard to detect and carry a small amount of risk to the rhino if it breaks confinement. Conversely you could use a strong gamma emitter to make it easily detectable but I don't see a way to do so that would harm the consumers but not the rhino. Best you can do is some level or radioactivity that we're fine with in animals but not in humans because we're hypocrites.
  - GTP 2y ago
    > Best you can do is some level or radioactivity that we're fine with in animals but not in humans because we're hypocrites. I don't know if this is the case, but if the life expectancy of rhinos is much less than humans, then there would be radiation levels that are safe for the rhino but harmful for humans. Tumors can take time to develop.
    - krisoft 2y ago
      > I don't know if this is the case, but if the life expectancy of rhinos is much less than humans, Luckily this is easily obtainable information on the internet. 'Rhinoceroses’ lifespans vary on species. A rhino’s lifespan is typically 40 to 45 years." https://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/blog/rhinoceros-fact-sheet/ https://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/blog/rhinoceros-fact-sheet/ That is less than a human lifespan but not by orders of magnitude smaller. Sounds like a very narrow needle to thread.
  - omgJustTest 2y ago
    I think that no one believes killing consumers of these products is a viable solution or that it doesn't have disastrous side effects. What happens with rhinos that die? do we have to collect their tusks and these are rad-waste now? Making them radioactive with non-penetrating particles might be ok from the standpoint of trying to make them less desirable... but you aren't making them detectable & it is highly controversial to do this. In reality, and back to the solutions proposed by the article: I don't know if the source article's idea has merit or is just funded by a non-profit where this is a small pet project or if they really don't understand the tradespace.
  - richardw 2y ago
    If this has a chance of getting to 100% of the population, I think if I were the rhino I’d want to take those odds given the alternative is being hunted. And if it’s eg 50%, I’d very much want to be in the injected 50% because all poaching effort would be in the non treated population. Obviously assuming all animals in an area were injected and that was known to poachers.
alwa 2y ago
Do the black-market consumers know that? Fentanyl and xylazine come to mind: not many drug users intend to get those, they can get many batches of what they do want before they get an adulterated batch, and they often don’t find out they got the adulterated kind until it’s too late. I’m also wondering where we’re getting the idea that it’s extremely toxic if ingested. Maybe it’s in the video? The article seems to suggest that it’s “non-toxic” and that > “the inserted radioisotopes hold no health or any other risk for the animals or those who care for them.”
- manarth 2y ago
  > "The radioactive dose makes the horn poisonous for humans" https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/articles/cd16yjp0062o https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/articles/cd16yjp0062o
- manarth 2y ago
  An additional reference: > 'The radioactive material would "render the horn useless... essentially poisonous for human consumption" added Nithaya Chetty, professor and dean of science at [the University of the Witwatersrand]' https://phys.org/news/2024-06-radioactive-rhino-horns-curb-poaching.html https://phys.org/news/2024-06-radioactive-rhino-horns-curb-p...
  - chickenbig 2y ago
    This contradicts the FAQ page https://rhisotope.org/faqs/ https://rhisotope.org/faqs/ > Q: What if you drop the radioactive seed in the grass and cannot be found? And other animals accidentally ingest it? > A: This is a highly unlikely scenario as specific standard operating procedures will be developed to ensure that no radioactive material will be left behind at the treatment site. Should an animal ingest some of the radioactive material subsequent to the initial treatment, the radioisotope will be of such a chemical and physical form that it will quickly pass through the bowels of the animal and be excreted out by that animal. The calculated doses will not do any significant harm. Perhaps something significant happens when grinding up the radioisotope, but then again this would also happen when ingested by animals (grinding between teeth etc).

omgJustTest 2y ago

Not fully ruined... since the injections are typically not loose contamination, for fear that it migrates into the rhino via capillary action or irradiates the rhino more than people are comfortable with. Smugglers would likely be able to use simple, cheap detectors to remove these. Potentially they don't remove the pils, simply grind the horn + source into medicine... the amount of radiation will not cause acute effects to the person who ingests it and will likely just cause some "unexplainable" tumor or system failure later in life or after a prolonged consumption.

shiandow 2y ago
Honestly I'm a bit confused, the descriptions seem contradictory or require an extraordinary level of fine tuning. If you just insert a capsule of radioactive material, it's easy to make it (extremely) poisonous, easily detectable and harmless to the rhino. But I don't see a way to do all three at once. If you just wanted to kill the consumers a small amount of an alpha emitter would work quite well, but would be hard to detect and carry a small amount of risk to the rhino if it breaks confinement. Conversely you could use a strong gamma emitter to make it easily detectable but I don't see a way to do so that would harm the consumers but not the rhino. Best you can do is some level or radioactivity that we're fine with in animals but not in humans because we're hypocrites.
- GTP 2y ago
  > Best you can do is some level or radioactivity that we're fine with in animals but not in humans because we're hypocrites. I don't know if this is the case, but if the life expectancy of rhinos is much less than humans, then there would be radiation levels that are safe for the rhino but harmful for humans. Tumors can take time to develop.
  - krisoft 2y ago
    > I don't know if this is the case, but if the life expectancy of rhinos is much less than humans, Luckily this is easily obtainable information on the internet. 'Rhinoceroses’ lifespans vary on species. A rhino’s lifespan is typically 40 to 45 years." https://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/blog/rhinoceros-fact-sheet/ https://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/blog/rhinoceros-fact-sheet/ That is less than a human lifespan but not by orders of magnitude smaller. Sounds like a very narrow needle to thread.
- omgJustTest 2y ago
  I think that no one believes killing consumers of these products is a viable solution or that it doesn't have disastrous side effects. What happens with rhinos that die? do we have to collect their tusks and these are rad-waste now? Making them radioactive with non-penetrating particles might be ok from the standpoint of trying to make them less desirable... but you aren't making them detectable & it is highly controversial to do this. In reality, and back to the solutions proposed by the article: I don't know if the source article's idea has merit or is just funded by a non-profit where this is a small pet project or if they really don't understand the tradespace.
- richardw 2y ago
  If this has a chance of getting to 100% of the population, I think if I were the rhino I’d want to take those odds given the alternative is being hunted. And if it’s eg 50%, I’d very much want to be in the injected 50% because all poaching effort would be in the non treated population. Obviously assuming all animals in an area were injected and that was known to poachers.

alwa 2y ago

Do the black-market consumers know that? Fentanyl and xylazine come to mind: not many drug users intend to get those, they can get many batches of what they do want before they get an adulterated batch, and they often don’t find out they got the adulterated kind until it’s too late. I’m also wondering where we’re getting the idea that it’s extremely toxic if ingested. Maybe it’s in the video? The article seems to suggest that it’s “non-toxic” and that > “the inserted radioisotopes hold no health or any other risk for the animals or those who care for them.”

manarth 2y ago
> "The radioactive dose makes the horn poisonous for humans" https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/articles/cd16yjp0062o https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/articles/cd16yjp0062o
manarth 2y ago
An additional reference: > 'The radioactive material would "render the horn useless... essentially poisonous for human consumption" added Nithaya Chetty, professor and dean of science at [the University of the Witwatersrand]' https://phys.org/news/2024-06-radioactive-rhino-horns-curb-poaching.html https://phys.org/news/2024-06-radioactive-rhino-horns-curb-p...
- chickenbig 2y ago
  This contradicts the FAQ page https://rhisotope.org/faqs/ https://rhisotope.org/faqs/ > Q: What if you drop the radioactive seed in the grass and cannot be found? And other animals accidentally ingest it? > A: This is a highly unlikely scenario as specific standard operating procedures will be developed to ensure that no radioactive material will be left behind at the treatment site. Should an animal ingest some of the radioactive material subsequent to the initial treatment, the radioisotope will be of such a chemical and physical form that it will quickly pass through the bowels of the animal and be excreted out by that animal. The calculated doses will not do any significant harm. Perhaps something significant happens when grinding up the radioisotope, but then again this would also happen when ingested by animals (grinding between teeth etc).