3 ms·

> You'd have to be a "US Person" which means generally at least green card or a citizen of a friendly country. Under ITAR, “US Person” means US citizen or gree

> You'd have to be a "US Person" which means generally at least green card or a citizen of a friendly country. Under ITAR, “US Person” means US citizen or green card holder. (And a few other obscure categories, such as individuals granted refugee status by the US government.) Export to citizens of friendly countries (who don’t have green cards or dual US citizenship) requires an export license. I heard some talk they might exclude Australian citizens from this rule as part of AUKUS (although even there I don’t know if it would apply to space stuff, since space ain’t got nothing to do with nuclear submarines), but right now no ally is excluded. > Like if you gave a tour to a Chinese citizen you could well be guilty of exporting protected technology. From what I understand, theoretically speaking you are okay if they have a green card, or dual US-Chinese citizenship. How well the theory holds up in practice, I don’t know. (Technically China bans dual citizenship-however, if a Chinese citizen naturalises into the citizenship of another country, what happens if they don’t tell the PRC government they did it? And even if they do tell the PRC government, although PRC law says the government has to cancel their Chinese passport, the PRC government is free to ignore its own laws whenever it wants to.)

jvanderbot 2y ago
There are generally exceptions to US Person status for dual citizens, especially those from "Designated countries" which include China, Iran, etc currently. These exceptions apply on a per-center, per-project basis IIRC, but include blanket bans on NASA collaboration / exchange, which would include private tours of the kind being discussed. https://www.nasa.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/designated-country-list-4.21.2023.pdf https://www.nasa.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/designated-c...
- skissane 2y ago
  That NASA document doesn’t actually say it applies to dual citizens, it only says it applies to “Foreign Nationals”. It all depends on how one defines that term, of course, but usually in US law, a US dual citizen is not a “Foreign National”. The document never mentions the issue of dual citizenship. Now, I’m not saying you are wrong here - maybe NASA actually does have a policy saying dual US citizens are subject to certain additional restrictions, depending on the country of dual citizenship - but the document you are citing in support of your position never actually says that. If we are talking about security clearances, as opposed to export control, that is a completely different story. Absolutely dual citizenship can get one denied a security clearance, and dual citizenship with an unfriendly country increases those odds-but even there, there is no absolute rule about it, whether dual citizenship is disqualifying is decided on a case-by-case basis, and it depends not just on the country of dual citizenship, but also how one got the citizenship, how much one chooses to make use of its benefits (there is a big difference between getting dual citizenship at time of birth but never applying for a passport, versus naturalising as a citizen of another country as an adult and then travelling around the world with its passport), etc
colechristensen 2y ago
>From what I understand, theoretically speaking you are okay One does not rely on theory when you could spend a decade in prison for interpreting it wrong. For edge cases you'd better consult your compliance lawyer, your state department contact, and your god before making assumptions. Exports do happen all the time and there's a pretty open culture of declaring them. Usually it's a matter of an email getting sent to the wrong person and actually harmless which comes with an administrative bitch slap from the state department and maybe a moderate fine (like 5 digits, enough to get somebody's attention but in the way a parking ticket does). If you're brazen or particularly foolish or there's real harm though...

jvanderbot 2y ago

There are generally exceptions to US Person status for dual citizens, especially those from "Designated countries" which include China, Iran, etc currently. These exceptions apply on a per-center, per-project basis IIRC, but include blanket bans on NASA collaboration / exchange, which would include private tours of the kind being discussed. https://www.nasa.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/designated-country-list-4.21.2023.pdf https://www.nasa.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/designated-c...

skissane 2y ago
That NASA document doesn’t actually say it applies to dual citizens, it only says it applies to “Foreign Nationals”. It all depends on how one defines that term, of course, but usually in US law, a US dual citizen is not a “Foreign National”. The document never mentions the issue of dual citizenship. Now, I’m not saying you are wrong here - maybe NASA actually does have a policy saying dual US citizens are subject to certain additional restrictions, depending on the country of dual citizenship - but the document you are citing in support of your position never actually says that. If we are talking about security clearances, as opposed to export control, that is a completely different story. Absolutely dual citizenship can get one denied a security clearance, and dual citizenship with an unfriendly country increases those odds-but even there, there is no absolute rule about it, whether dual citizenship is disqualifying is decided on a case-by-case basis, and it depends not just on the country of dual citizenship, but also how one got the citizenship, how much one chooses to make use of its benefits (there is a big difference between getting dual citizenship at time of birth but never applying for a passport, versus naturalising as a citizen of another country as an adult and then travelling around the world with its passport), etc

colechristensen 2y ago

>From what I understand, theoretically speaking you are okay One does not rely on theory when you could spend a decade in prison for interpreting it wrong. For edge cases you'd better consult your compliance lawyer, your state department contact, and your god before making assumptions. Exports do happen all the time and there's a pretty open culture of declaring them. Usually it's a matter of an email getting sent to the wrong person and actually harmless which comes with an administrative bitch slap from the state department and maybe a moderate fine (like 5 digits, enough to get somebody's attention but in the way a parking ticket does). If you're brazen or particularly foolish or there's real harm though...