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"Poor people" or rather "people who actually need to drive in this particular moment"? It's really nice to be able to pay for better facilities _when you need

"Poor people" or rather "people who actually need to drive in this particular moment"? It's really nice to be able to pay for better facilities _when you need them_. The person who is late for a flight or a job interview, or who just found out their kid got hurt at school and is heading to the hospital, benefits massively from congestion pricing. They have the ability to access faster transportation when they need it, and to choose the slower alternative when they don't.

seoulmetro 2y ago
So you're hurting everyone for the minor few? I've heard this before and it's still very bad planning. You can create bus and emergency lanes you know, with less detriment.
immibis 2y ago
It's nice to be able to pay for better facilities. It's even nicer if they are just better, without paying. Payment can create perverse incentives as well.
- CalRobert 2y ago
  Yes, magic definitely is nicer than dealing with actual constraints.
- paulgb 2y ago
  The thing about congestion is that you can't “make it better” (in a densely populated place like Manhattan's CBD) without removing cars somehow. The only other real approach to this is rationing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_space_rationing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_space_rationing), which leads to economic inefficiencies and doesn't raise money that will be used to make transit better for everyone who choses not to drive.
- Retric 2y ago
  It’s impossible for free city streets to both be fast and scale to the density of NYC. Congestion pricing allows them to be fast by removing traffic. Thus allowing busses or people with significant need to travel quickly. Where it fails is an Uber/taxi drivers add a lot more congestion than an average person and the fees don’t get adjusted for this issue.
  - seoulmetro 2y ago
    So does banning people from driving. But obviously people are smart enough to realise that's dumb. I guess not smart enough to realise that pricing them out is the same thing and also incredibly dumb.
- rho138 2y ago
  Because that worked out so well with the internet and ad networks lol.

seoulmetro 2y ago

So you're hurting everyone for the minor few? I've heard this before and it's still very bad planning. You can create bus and emergency lanes you know, with less detriment.

immibis 2y ago

It's nice to be able to pay for better facilities. It's even nicer if they are just better, without paying. Payment can create perverse incentives as well.

CalRobert 2y ago
Yes, magic definitely is nicer than dealing with actual constraints.
paulgb 2y ago
The thing about congestion is that you can't “make it better” (in a densely populated place like Manhattan's CBD) without removing cars somehow. The only other real approach to this is rationing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_space_rationing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_space_rationing), which leads to economic inefficiencies and doesn't raise money that will be used to make transit better for everyone who choses not to drive.
Retric 2y ago
It’s impossible for free city streets to both be fast and scale to the density of NYC. Congestion pricing allows them to be fast by removing traffic. Thus allowing busses or people with significant need to travel quickly. Where it fails is an Uber/taxi drivers add a lot more congestion than an average person and the fees don’t get adjusted for this issue.
- seoulmetro 2y ago
  So does banning people from driving. But obviously people are smart enough to realise that's dumb. I guess not smart enough to realise that pricing them out is the same thing and also incredibly dumb.
rho138 2y ago
Because that worked out so well with the internet and ad networks lol.