7 ms·
Parkinson's Link to Gut Bacteria Suggests Unexpected, Simple Treatment
- sph 2y agoFrom the article: > "Supplementation of riboflavin and/or biotin is likely to be beneficial in a subset of Parkinson's disease patients, in which gut dysbiosis plays pivotal roles," From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riboflavin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riboflavin > Best sources of riboflavin: Beef liver, Chicken liver, Whey protein powder, Almonds > People at risk of having low riboflavin levels include alcoholics, vegetarian athletes, and practitioners of veganism. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biotin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biotin > Best sources of biotin: Chicken liver, Beef liver, Eggs, Peanuts, Sunflower seeds, Pork chop Offered without comment.
- DaoVeles 2y agoFor all the Aussies/Kiwis. Should this mean Vegemite and Mightymite are good against this?
- marci 2y agoIs Parkinson's rate lower in Australia/New Zealand?
- gadflyinyoureye 2y agoFollow up question: do Aussies actual eat that stuff or was just a lie in a song?
- reedf1 2y agoI should eat more chicken liver pâté...
- arghwhat 2y ago>Best sources of riboflavin: ... Whey protein powder ... Not the gains I was expecting.
- OJFord 2y agoCould really do with an easy way of viewing - for all important nutrients - all the best sources that you can eat where something you can't eat is a significant source. So for example I enter that I can't eat beef liver (presumably via a helper group that I'm vegetarian or Hindu or no beef or something) and it tells me to keep up my chicken liver, whey protein powder, ... intake for riboflavin & biotin. But doing that across all vitamins etc. at once having entered all the things you don't eat - because it's too much to be on top of otherwise, imo, and I think it's pretty easy to think you eat a balanced and varied diet but actually not have any good source of one or two specific things at all.
- brianf0 2y ago[flagged]
- zukzuk 2y agoThe big catch is that vegan diets seem to be protective against the progression of Parkinson’s disease: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11516224/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11516224/ As is often the case, the truth is probably a lot more nuanced than “x causes y”.
- arghwhat 2y agoAnd again, more nuanced than "vegan diets", taking just the abstract of the linked hypothesis: > Three recent case-control studies conclude that diets high in animal fat or cholesterol are associated with a substantial increase in risk for Parkinson's disease (PD); in contrast, fat of plant origin does not appear to increase risk. > In aggregate, these findings suggest that vegan diets may be notably protective with respect to PD. However, they offer no insight into whether saturated fat, compounds associated with animal fat, animal protein, or the integrated impact of the components of animal products mediates the risk associated with animal fat consumption. That is, the underlying cause could very well just be high cholesterol, and that the carnivores in the study were more likely to have high cholesterol than the vegan groups, either due to lifestyle choices (despite veganism itself not implying any sort of healthy lifestyle, there might be a stronger overlap with those choosing veganism and those leading a healthy lifestyle than for carnivores), or due to difference in dietary cholesterol intake.
- sph 2y agoAnother example of nuance, from that very paper: "A very recent study, utilizing prospective data from the Honolulu Heart Program cohort, indicates that heavy regular consumption of coffee or other sources of caffeine provides substantial protection from PD" Later: "Surprisingly, tobacco smoking is also markedly protective with respect to PD" In general, the conclusions of it are weak because it's a very weak paper. These vegan diets were compared against what? I can't be bothered to follow all sources, but this paper doesn't seem to pose this question either, which is a noticeable omission which smells of agenda. Are they comparing against people eating random junk like most of the Western world? Then of course any diet eliminating of our ultra-processed food is healthier, be it vegan, pescatarian, ketogenic, paleo, carnivore, Mediterranean, etc.
- JohnnyLarue 2y ago>Offered without comment. Pretty sure that's a comment.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- treprinum 2y agoYou don't get the required doses from food though.
- invalidname 2y agoThis seems odd, as someone who has no medical knowledge. If it's just adding B vitamins, then a lot of people take vitamins. Especially when diagnosed with something as terrible as Parkinson's. I would expect to hear some anecdotal evidence on that for a diseases that is so common. Edit: Very informative replies. Thanks!
- viraptor 2y agoThe dose makes a huge difference. The amount you get in the daily multivitamin pills is minimal really if you have issues with processing those.
- invalidname 2y agoBut wouldn't patients see deficiency in blood tests and get extra supplements for those two?
- bacro 2y agoFrom the experience I have from doctors in Portugal, they will ignore that. My brother was not even warned by the doctor that he was pre-diabetic after checking his blood results.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- viraptor 2y agoB vitamin levels beyond B12 are rarely tested. You're unlikely to ever get it checked unless you experience specific neurological issues. Overtesting itself is dangerous, so... doctors don't have the incentive.
- kvgr 2y agoDangerous in a sense: costs money right now, we would have to deal with it. My friend once said: “no one is healthy, your doctor just does not have the testing resolution to find the issues” and in 3 years you get parkinsons…
- sambeau 2y agoHere's the paper if you'd like to skip the horribly ad-laden science alert site. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41531-024-00724-z https://www.nature.com/articles/s41531-024-00724-z
- Larrikin 2y agoThere are no ads on my phone. But I have Ad Nauseam installed.
- viraptor 2y agoI really hope we dig into the gut processing of B group a bit more. Another candidate for improvements there is some types of ADHD. Some better defined links there would by awesome.
- mywacaday 2y agoI have recently been diagnosed with ADHD and haven't come across gut health as being a risk factor, do you have any references?
- viraptor 2y agoGut relation doi.org/10.21203/rs.3.rs-28862/v1 B6, B2 deficiencies in ADHD doi:10.1192/bjpo.bp.116.003491 But that's a deep hole and a good way to accidentally poison yourself. If you've just been diagnosed, you'll have lots of other, approved options to try first.
- treprinum 2y agoB2 has no known unsafe max limit and provides FAD+ for neurons, super important for electron transport chain. Megadosing B2 is known to improve migraine over time. B6 however can be toxic and the overload has about the same symptoms as deficiency, so one has to be careful there.
- viraptor 2y agohttps://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.1093/advances/nmab033 https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.1093/advances/nmab033 for lots of info about it.
- ThePhysicist 2y agoThis is very interesting when thinking about the known link to higher Parkinsons/Alzheimers risk for people that are exposed to fungicides / biocides. Gut bacteria synthesize plenty of vitamins for the body, so it's not far-fetched to think that killing off a fraction of your gut biome due to exposure to these substances will lead to vitamin deficiencies and neurological problems. There are studies that show transplanting gut bacteria from healthy people can alleviate some motor symptoms of Parkinsons [1]. So take good care of your gut bacteria! 1: https://www.parkinsons.org.uk/news/gut-bacteria-transplant-may-improve-parkinsons-movement-symptoms https://www.parkinsons.org.uk/news/gut-bacteria-transplant-m...
- xtiansimon 2y ago> “So take good care of your gut bacteria!” Unless you get a bad bug and go on heavy antibiotics. I had a bad pneumonia and had 4-day stay at my local hospital. And they pumped so much antibiotics I was sh!tt’n like a goose for weeks
- bottom999mottob 2y agoQuaternary ammonium compounds (quats) are commonly used as fungicides and disinfectants in hospitals, and I fear for the health-care workers that have to touch them all day. Of course, we should use disinfectants in hospitals, but the long-term neurological effects to healthcare workers and terminally ill patients is concerning.
- rom16384 2y agoThat and Tetrachloroethylene (TCE) [1] which is used as brake cleaning fluid or in dry cleaning. [1] https://www.science.org/content/article/widely-used-chemical-strongly-linked-parkinson-s-disease https://www.science.org/content/article/widely-used-chemical...
- voisin 2y agoAlso, IIRC, the basis of the true story behind the movie and book A Civil Action - oft recommended for students entering 1L (the book) due to its coverage of tort law.
- narrator 2y agoThese guys say it's a certain strain of gut bacteria that causes Parkinson's: https://yle.fi/a/74-20030498 https://yle.fi/a/74-20030498 The immune system declines in old age and it migrates from the gut to the brain. Certain groups of gut bacteria like different nutrient environments, so the gut bacteria from this study might like that environment too.
- uncertainrhymes 2y agoGreat, they identified differences in gut bacteria. Their control group was usually the spouses, so they were geographically similar. Wonderful. People with PD are on very different medications, controlled diets (you need to avoid protein at different parts of the cycle), and.... what 'simple treatment'? The conclusions in that fluff piece are not in the original study. Sure, some bacteria are linked to differences in uptake of some vitamins, but why would adding more vitamins to the diet affect the PD? It isn't like that is the cause of PD, at best a symptom. Bad science journalism.
- ionwake 2y agoI literally couldn’t understand your comment because I was unsure if you were being sarcastic
- froh 2y agodid we read the same study?? https://www.nature.com/articles/s41531-024-00724-z https://www.nature.com/articles/s41531-024-00724-z from there: > Riboflavin (vitamin B2) in humans originates from food and gut microbiota. Therapeutically, riboflavin improves oxidative stress, mitochondrial dysfunction, neuroinflammation, and glutamate excitotoxicity, which are related to PD pathogenesis27. In a clinical study, high doses of riboflavin ameliorated motor deficits in PD patients28. In another disease, supplementation of riboflavin in patients with Crohn’s disease decreased systemic oxidative stress, inflammatory effects, and disease activity29. Supplementation of riboflavin to compensate for decreased riboflavin production by gut microbiota may be beneficial in PD patients. > Biotin (vitamin B7) produces anti-inflammatory substances and decreases inflammation, which leads to the relief of allergy, immunological symptoms, and inflammatory bowel disease30. The effects of biotin on PD have not been reported to the best of our knowledge. In contrast, in multiple sclerosis, open31 and double-blind32 studies showed that biotin ameliorated motor and optical defects. now these supplements are the tentative suggestion in the article. what you _may_ validly point out is that these supplements are only identified as of _potential_ helpt, because follow up studies are needed to validate if this really is the case. but neither the study nor the article claim otherwise, right?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- datavirtue 2y agoVery interesting. I'm 45 and recently became chronically constipated. I determined that I had somehow killed off my gut bacteria and began a treatment of eating nothing but cruciferous salads each day, supplementing with probiotics (with as many bacterial strains as I could get). I was eating yogurts regularly, but none of those contained enough bacterial variety (you need many more strains to maintain health). This restored me to perfect function and taught me that my gut microbiome was fucked up for years, even decades. I cannot believe how good I feel and how perfectly my digestive system functions now. When the constipation hit I thought I was literally dying. Even a 100% raw vegetable diet was not digesting properly and would takes days to exit at first. Any carbs or bread at all would jam me up completely. I have been maintaining perfect gut function since then by avoiding alcohol and eating a wide range of raw vegetables and cruciferous salads to feed the bacteria. However, I'm able to digest anything now, effortlessly. Remarkable.
- voisin 2y agoDo you intend to take probiotics forever? I understand (possibly incorrectly) that the microbiome shifts back quickly as soon as any of the interventions stop, and while the others seem like they should be sustainable (part of a good lifestyle) I always wonder about how realistic it is to keep taking probiotics for life.
- datavirtue 2y agoI'm not taking them now. I just try to maintain what is established. You shouldn't need to take them at all. The modern processed food diet, antibiotics, and other "toxins" cause our biome to die off. Some of the strains are not replaced by our food. There is a laundry list of strains in the high quality pills. Essentially, once you have it, you have it. Unless you fail to nourish it. It takes a while for the digestive track to rebuild itself after biome is restored. It has those cilia-like fingers that operate in a mucus layer, and those die back or recede as does the mucus layer. That takes a while to reestablish.
- Teslazar 2y agoHow long did it take to see significant improvement and how long did it take before you figured you had restored perfect function? Can you elaborate on what you ate?
- carolinehey530 2y ago[flagged]
- daneel951 2y agoCaution! Curious about this comment (having a family member with Parkinson's) I searched for treatment from naturalherbscentre.com and I found that this type of comment was copy-pasted elsewhere Here https://www.crossfit.com/230111 https://www.crossfit.com/230111 there are 3 of them! It is really bad to play with people's health and suggest to stop taking real medications.
- caroliy76 2y agoMy Partner, who is 66 years old, was diagnosed with Parkinson's disease last year. We noticed that he was experiencing hallucinations, slow movement, disturbed sleep, and twitchy hands and legs when at rest. He had to stop taking pramipexole (Sifrol), carbidopa/levodopa, and 2 mg of biperiden because of side effects. Our family doctor recommended a PD-5 treatment from naturalherbscentre. com, which my husband has been undergoing for several months now. Exercise has been very beneficial. He has shown great improvement with the treatment thus far. He is more active now, does more, and feels less apathetic. He has more energy and can do more activities in a day than he did before. As far as tremors I observe a progress, he improved drastically. I thought I would share my husband's story in case it could be helpful, but ultimately you have to figure out what works best for you. Salutations and well wishes