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I heard that upgrading the framework laptop would end up costing about the same as just buying a new regular midrange laptop entirely, at which point I'm not re

I heard that upgrading the framework laptop would end up costing about the same as just buying a new regular midrange laptop entirely, at which point I'm not really sure if I'd care about the upgradeability. Update: updating the main board (e.g CPU) would cost anywhere from 500 to 1000 EUR (https://frame.work/marketplace/mainboards https://frame.work/marketplace/mainboards). I'd much rather stay with a desktop PC where all the parts are also upgradeable, but much, much cheaper to the point that it actually makes sense.

michaljanocko 2y ago
I bought mine as part of one of the first two batches. When the 12th gen Intel came out I upgraded for about 40% of the price I'd pay for a similarly specced laptop in my country.
sofixa 2y ago
Why upgrade the mainboard? You only need this for CPU socket changes. You need to upgrade RAM/SSD/CPU much more frequently than the mainboard.
- askonomm 2y ago
  The CPU is soldered to the mainboard and can't be swapped out on its own, unless I'm looking at it wrong on their website.
  - BiteCode_dev 2y ago
    True, but the prices you list are the price of the board + the CPU. On this main board ($340): https://frame.work/products/cooler-master-mainboard-case-and-mainboard-kit?v=FRANHDCM01 https://frame.work/products/cooler-master-mainboard-case-and... The CPU is worth $250 already. You pay a $100 to get a swapable CPU on a laptop which is guaranteed to be compatible. You might value or not this feature, and that's fair. But I do value it a lot. Even on a tower, matching a board and a CPU is not a given. On a laptop, forget about it.
  - N-Krause 2y ago
    The cpu, the heatsink and the mainboard are one part, that is correct. If you want to replace the cpu you have to place the other parts as well. Even though that is trivial. As for the costs: Yes the mainboards on frameworks website currently cost about 500-1000€, new laptops using those cpu's are tend to be a bit more expensive than just those parts, so you are saving a bit of money there. But in my opinion that is not the main selling point. The fact that you get a high quality, long lasting, well supported laptop from a company that respects it's customers and their problems coupled with the fact that it is just environmentally better is the main selling point. Yes currently you pay extra for those benefits. You have to choose if those things are worth more money than the next 3-year throwaway laptop. Btw: I am a very happy user of a Framework 16 as my gaming machine. So my opinion may be biased ;)
- delta_p_delta_x 2y ago
  The last Intel CPU micro-architecture to be offered with sockets for laptops was Haswell, where CPUs were offered in the Socket G3[1] package. I had one of these, Intel i7-4710MQ. Since then, every laptop Intel (and AMD, for that matter) CPU package has been BGA, and therefore soldered to motherboards. If you want to upgrade your CPU on a notebook, you must change your motherboard; no choice in the matter. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Socket_G3?wprov=sfla1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Socket_G3?wprov=sfla1
  - xxs 2y ago
    Pretty much yeah -- all laptop CPUs since Haswell have been non-socketable/BGA. I still have a rather decent laptop with such a CPU - acer aspire v3-771g. It's still in daily use, after 8y back I had to replace a faulty mlcc (short to ground) that took a mosfet along with it.
BiteCode_dev 2y ago
Yeah but you update the mainboard once every 10 years. Usually what you upgrade are: ram, disk and cpu. Comparing a tower with a laptop makes little sense. They don't have the same use cases and compromises at all. It's like saying "I much rather stay on a framework, because all the part are upgradable, but I exchange the bigger price for portability and not having to by a battery to protect against power down". It has little to do with the framework proposition, which is to be a laptop that happens to be easier and cheaper to repair than the competition. I tried to repair my previous laptop. I killed it because the parts are so hard to manipulate. Cost me $2000. I think anything is cheaper than that.
kalleboo 2y ago
One nice thing about upgrading the framework is your old main board isn’t useless once removed. You can get an external case for it and use it separately as a mini PC (replacing a media PC, raspberry pi or NAS)
omnimus 2y ago
There is also the thing about you know... things not ending up in landfill. Price/performance/quality wise nothing beats cheapest Macbook Air. But that machine is designed in a way that its 100% that in few years it will die and it cannot be repaired. By soldering SSD and RAM you are on ticking clock. Especially the 8gig ram version will swap depleting your SSD cycles. I own cheapest macbook air M1 - i think it's the peak laptop "THE STANDARD", its great. But all the ways it's designed to be unrepairable. It's so clear case of planned obsolescence... it should be criminalized.
- darthrupert 2y ago
  Apple seems to have a robust and well-defined recycling program that I haven't seen with any other manufacturer. It would be interesting if somebody made a study comparing their environmental efficiency vs repairable hardware. https://www.apple.com/recycling/docs/Recycler-Controls.pdf https://www.apple.com/recycling/docs/Recycler-Controls.pdf
vidarh 2y ago
I've opted for a mini PC for my desktop, and then we just bring a cheap Chromebook on the rare occasions I need/want a laptop when traveling. I like the idea of the Framework laptop, but just don't see how I can justify it. If I was working away from my desk more often, then maybe.

michaljanocko 2y ago

I bought mine as part of one of the first two batches. When the 12th gen Intel came out I upgraded for about 40% of the price I'd pay for a similarly specced laptop in my country.

sofixa 2y ago

Why upgrade the mainboard? You only need this for CPU socket changes. You need to upgrade RAM/SSD/CPU much more frequently than the mainboard.

askonomm 2y ago
The CPU is soldered to the mainboard and can't be swapped out on its own, unless I'm looking at it wrong on their website.
- BiteCode_dev 2y ago
  True, but the prices you list are the price of the board + the CPU. On this main board ($340): https://frame.work/products/cooler-master-mainboard-case-and-mainboard-kit?v=FRANHDCM01 https://frame.work/products/cooler-master-mainboard-case-and... The CPU is worth $250 already. You pay a $100 to get a swapable CPU on a laptop which is guaranteed to be compatible. You might value or not this feature, and that's fair. But I do value it a lot. Even on a tower, matching a board and a CPU is not a given. On a laptop, forget about it.
- N-Krause 2y ago
  The cpu, the heatsink and the mainboard are one part, that is correct. If you want to replace the cpu you have to place the other parts as well. Even though that is trivial. As for the costs: Yes the mainboards on frameworks website currently cost about 500-1000€, new laptops using those cpu's are tend to be a bit more expensive than just those parts, so you are saving a bit of money there. But in my opinion that is not the main selling point. The fact that you get a high quality, long lasting, well supported laptop from a company that respects it's customers and their problems coupled with the fact that it is just environmentally better is the main selling point. Yes currently you pay extra for those benefits. You have to choose if those things are worth more money than the next 3-year throwaway laptop. Btw: I am a very happy user of a Framework 16 as my gaming machine. So my opinion may be biased ;)
delta_p_delta_x 2y ago
The last Intel CPU micro-architecture to be offered with sockets for laptops was Haswell, where CPUs were offered in the Socket G3[1] package. I had one of these, Intel i7-4710MQ. Since then, every laptop Intel (and AMD, for that matter) CPU package has been BGA, and therefore soldered to motherboards. If you want to upgrade your CPU on a notebook, you must change your motherboard; no choice in the matter. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Socket_G3?wprov=sfla1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Socket_G3?wprov=sfla1
- xxs 2y ago
  Pretty much yeah -- all laptop CPUs since Haswell have been non-socketable/BGA. I still have a rather decent laptop with such a CPU - acer aspire v3-771g. It's still in daily use, after 8y back I had to replace a faulty mlcc (short to ground) that took a mosfet along with it.

BiteCode_dev 2y ago

Yeah but you update the mainboard once every 10 years. Usually what you upgrade are: ram, disk and cpu. Comparing a tower with a laptop makes little sense. They don't have the same use cases and compromises at all. It's like saying "I much rather stay on a framework, because all the part are upgradable, but I exchange the bigger price for portability and not having to by a battery to protect against power down". It has little to do with the framework proposition, which is to be a laptop that happens to be easier and cheaper to repair than the competition. I tried to repair my previous laptop. I killed it because the parts are so hard to manipulate. Cost me $2000. I think anything is cheaper than that.

kalleboo 2y ago

One nice thing about upgrading the framework is your old main board isn’t useless once removed. You can get an external case for it and use it separately as a mini PC (replacing a media PC, raspberry pi or NAS)

omnimus 2y ago

There is also the thing about you know... things not ending up in landfill. Price/performance/quality wise nothing beats cheapest Macbook Air. But that machine is designed in a way that its 100% that in few years it will die and it cannot be repaired. By soldering SSD and RAM you are on ticking clock. Especially the 8gig ram version will swap depleting your SSD cycles. I own cheapest macbook air M1 - i think it's the peak laptop "THE STANDARD", its great. But all the ways it's designed to be unrepairable. It's so clear case of planned obsolescence... it should be criminalized.

darthrupert 2y ago
Apple seems to have a robust and well-defined recycling program that I haven't seen with any other manufacturer. It would be interesting if somebody made a study comparing their environmental efficiency vs repairable hardware. https://www.apple.com/recycling/docs/Recycler-Controls.pdf https://www.apple.com/recycling/docs/Recycler-Controls.pdf

vidarh 2y ago

I've opted for a mini PC for my desktop, and then we just bring a cheap Chromebook on the rare occasions I need/want a laptop when traveling. I like the idea of the Framework laptop, but just don't see how I can justify it. If I was working away from my desk more often, then maybe.