7 ms·

Doesn’t this open up the market for a newcomer to make verified sesame-free bread?

by kevinventullo 2y ago

betaby 2y ago
No. That market is too small to target. Overregulation is affecting consumer choices.
- grugagag 2y ago
  And without overregulation those consumer choices wouldn’t be be easily faked?
- akira2501 2y ago
  Overregulation + Monopolization is the 1-2 punch in operation here. It's the only reason you'd even think to do something like this. "Fine. Now _everything_ has Sesame in it. What are you going to do? _Settle_ with us?"
  - mensetmanusman 2y ago
    How to fight economies of scale…
  - ApolloFortyNine 2y ago
    Too far the other way will likely lead to a pseudo ban on Sesame seeds. It just wouldn't be worth the risk. Or the cost of it will get pushed on the 99.999% who won't die from a single Sesame seed. I know there's a lot of things that work like this (handicap ramps for instance) but if you don't draw a line somewhere it does get overly expensive.
- zeroonetwothree 2y ago
  There are many small bakeries that offer a variety of options. It seems silly to confidently assert this as you do.
  - alwa 2y ago
    That seems like a sensible point to me. At some level, let the Bimbos of the world have the sesame-agnostic mass market—that only strengthens the case for niche competitors who serve this specific market. If sesame is in fact poison for a specific subgroup, this shifts the mass market option from “eh it’s probably fine, how often does cross-contamination happen” to “definitely poison for me, I’d better seek an alternative.”
- jjallen 2y ago
  It’s over regulation to everyone who doesn’t have sesame allergies. It’s lifesaving to those that do. Somehow bakeries in Switzerland are doing just fine with sesame being a declared allergen and keeping them separate but American ones just can’t be bothered to handle a life threatening ingredient thoroughly carefully.
  - isoprophlex 2y ago
    A life-threatening allergy is fine and all but will someone please think of the profit margins?!
    - akoboldfrying 2y ago
      Almost every physical object you use in your everyday life, including the building you live in and the clothes you wear, was created by someone who cared about the profit margins on that thing, and didn't care about you personally at all. If you want to propose a different system for creating the stuff in the world, it might pay to look at the success rates of other systems people have already tried.
  - john_the_writer 2y ago
    It's a scale difference. If you're making bread product for a million people you have a massive factory.. And nuts be there
    - portaouflop 2y ago
      Of course, everything weird and whacky about the US can be explained because it’s just so much bigger - you wouldn’t understand coming from such a tiny country.
      - robertlagrant 2y ago
        The psychology of this comment aside, I don't think any country is so small it can't fit a massive factory in it. Unless you're writing from Vatican City, perhaps?
aiauthoritydev 2y ago
Yes it does. It also good for the people with allergies as they can confidently buy that bread. When FDA declares a new allergen, the top lawyer of the company that has presence from NY to SF seats down with the CEO, they then ask all the manufacturing units to do an audit of the said allergen use and then hire a third party auditor to verify if the allergen is used at all not just at their retail locations but in the entire supply chain. This involves the place where wheat is harvested to the restaurant where the bread is served. For a large company this is a millions of dollars and several quarters of project. The lawyer and CEO needs to chalk out the plan. If they want to make sure their bread does not contain the said allergen they have to update all their processes right from where they buy their wheat to where they test their bread for the said allergen and retrain their staff, suppliers, QA etc. this adds millions of dollars in additional expenses per year. Not only all this is complex that makes the bread expensive for EVERYONE, it is also much more prone to error. It is much easier for your small local company to provide sesame free bread at slightly higher price to those who need it. You wont get it in the middle of death valley but that is fine.
- wolpoli 2y ago
  > For a large company this is a millions of dollars The FDA was expecting that companies spend millions to ensure that the products are free of sesame to help people with allergies, but companies realize that it's easier to just add sesame into their products. I am not sure the government could do now to help people with sesame allergies. Ban sesame outright from certain products? Mandate that certain companies produce sesame-free products?
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - VBprogrammer 2y ago
    Adding an allergen in quantities where it has no meaningful effect is attempting to flout a regulation. It's like bringing money into the country by spitting it among fellow travellers. In a functioning system the authorities would have the power to investigate and use discovery to identify cases where allergens are being added deliberately for no other reason than flouting rules. They should then be able to issue substantive fines to encourage actual compliance. Its not like adding small amounts of an allergen is a victimless. Lots of people with moderate to serious allergies eat things every day which "may contain" their allergen.
WA 2y ago
Sure, although these products usually are A LOT more expensive. Same with gluten-free. That stuff costs 3-10x as much as non-gluten free food. Case in point: Italy has a wheat-rich cuisine and they give up to 140€ per month to people with Celiac disease to offset the higher costs of gluten-free food: https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2019/03/08/the-rise-and-rise-of-gluten-free-in-italy-nbc-left-field https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2019/03/08/the-rise-and-r...

Doesn’t this open up the market for a newcomer to make verified sesame-free bread?

betaby 2y ago

No. That market is too small to target. Overregulation is affecting consumer choices.

grugagag 2y ago
And without overregulation those consumer choices wouldn’t be be easily faked?
akira2501 2y ago
Overregulation + Monopolization is the 1-2 punch in operation here. It's the only reason you'd even think to do something like this. "Fine. Now _everything_ has Sesame in it. What are you going to do? _Settle_ with us?"
- mensetmanusman 2y ago
  How to fight economies of scale…
- ApolloFortyNine 2y ago
  Too far the other way will likely lead to a pseudo ban on Sesame seeds. It just wouldn't be worth the risk. Or the cost of it will get pushed on the 99.999% who won't die from a single Sesame seed. I know there's a lot of things that work like this (handicap ramps for instance) but if you don't draw a line somewhere it does get overly expensive.
zeroonetwothree 2y ago
There are many small bakeries that offer a variety of options. It seems silly to confidently assert this as you do.
- alwa 2y ago
  That seems like a sensible point to me. At some level, let the Bimbos of the world have the sesame-agnostic mass market—that only strengthens the case for niche competitors who serve this specific market. If sesame is in fact poison for a specific subgroup, this shifts the mass market option from “eh it’s probably fine, how often does cross-contamination happen” to “definitely poison for me, I’d better seek an alternative.”
jjallen 2y ago
It’s over regulation to everyone who doesn’t have sesame allergies. It’s lifesaving to those that do. Somehow bakeries in Switzerland are doing just fine with sesame being a declared allergen and keeping them separate but American ones just can’t be bothered to handle a life threatening ingredient thoroughly carefully.
- isoprophlex 2y ago
  A life-threatening allergy is fine and all but will someone please think of the profit margins?!
  - akoboldfrying 2y ago
    Almost every physical object you use in your everyday life, including the building you live in and the clothes you wear, was created by someone who cared about the profit margins on that thing, and didn't care about you personally at all. If you want to propose a different system for creating the stuff in the world, it might pay to look at the success rates of other systems people have already tried.
- john_the_writer 2y ago
  It's a scale difference. If you're making bread product for a million people you have a massive factory.. And nuts be there
  - portaouflop 2y ago
    Of course, everything weird and whacky about the US can be explained because it’s just so much bigger - you wouldn’t understand coming from such a tiny country.
    - robertlagrant 2y ago
      The psychology of this comment aside, I don't think any country is so small it can't fit a massive factory in it. Unless you're writing from Vatican City, perhaps?

aiauthoritydev 2y ago

Yes it does. It also good for the people with allergies as they can confidently buy that bread. When FDA declares a new allergen, the top lawyer of the company that has presence from NY to SF seats down with the CEO, they then ask all the manufacturing units to do an audit of the said allergen use and then hire a third party auditor to verify if the allergen is used at all not just at their retail locations but in the entire supply chain. This involves the place where wheat is harvested to the restaurant where the bread is served. For a large company this is a millions of dollars and several quarters of project. The lawyer and CEO needs to chalk out the plan. If they want to make sure their bread does not contain the said allergen they have to update all their processes right from where they buy their wheat to where they test their bread for the said allergen and retrain their staff, suppliers, QA etc. this adds millions of dollars in additional expenses per year. Not only all this is complex that makes the bread expensive for EVERYONE, it is also much more prone to error. It is much easier for your small local company to provide sesame free bread at slightly higher price to those who need it. You wont get it in the middle of death valley but that is fine.

wolpoli 2y ago
> For a large company this is a millions of dollars The FDA was expecting that companies spend millions to ensure that the products are free of sesame to help people with allergies, but companies realize that it's easier to just add sesame into their products. I am not sure the government could do now to help people with sesame allergies. Ban sesame outright from certain products? Mandate that certain companies produce sesame-free products?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- VBprogrammer 2y ago
  Adding an allergen in quantities where it has no meaningful effect is attempting to flout a regulation. It's like bringing money into the country by spitting it among fellow travellers. In a functioning system the authorities would have the power to investigate and use discovery to identify cases where allergens are being added deliberately for no other reason than flouting rules. They should then be able to issue substantive fines to encourage actual compliance. Its not like adding small amounts of an allergen is a victimless. Lots of people with moderate to serious allergies eat things every day which "may contain" their allergen.

WA 2y ago

Sure, although these products usually are A LOT more expensive. Same with gluten-free. That stuff costs 3-10x as much as non-gluten free food. Case in point: Italy has a wheat-rich cuisine and they give up to 140€ per month to people with Celiac disease to offset the higher costs of gluten-free food: https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2019/03/08/the-rise-and-rise-of-gluten-free-in-italy-nbc-left-field https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2019/03/08/the-rise-and-r...