4 ms·

You’re saying “created excess demand” like the people that you’re referring to weren’t chronic pain patients. I know some of them were drug-seekers but we deci

by jnovek 2y ago

You’re saying “created excess demand” like the people that you’re referring to weren’t chronic pain patients. I know some of them were drug-seekers but we decided it was OK to throw chronic pain patients under the bus so we could eliminate those drug-seekers. Now, in addition to dealing with pain every day, I also have to “prove” that I’m not an opioid seeker if I end up in the ER for overwhelming pain. Because saying that you’re hurting is clearly a sign that you’re actually an addict trying to get a fix. This might sound cold-hearted, but as someone who deals with chronic pain I’m fine with some street ODs in exchange for people who are in pain being cared for. Now we just torture patients by doing nothing. Recreational drugs are a choice. My pain was not. Why we punished for others’ bad choices?

d4mi3n 2y ago
> You’re saying “created excess demand” like the people that you’re referring to weren’t chronic pain patients. > I know some of them were drug-seekers but we decided it was OK to throw chronic pain patients under the bus so we could eliminate those drug-seekers. To the GPs point, the cause of the regulation was the abuse of the sale. Many deaths were caused by aggressively selling oxy to folks who weren’t managing pain. The fallout has resulted into harm with people that have a legitimate need for pain management. Both can be true. The Sacklers are the culprits any way you slice it.
skellera 2y ago
Even the chronic pain patients should not have had the amounts prescribed to them that they were. Doctors were incentivized to give as much as possible. Creating addicts in people who may otherwise would not have been. I personally knew people getting more than a cancer patient should’ve been given for day to day chronic pain. I’m sorry if you were personally affected by regulation but that doesn’t mean they didn’t cause the crisis.
clhodapp 2y ago
Do remember that some of them were acute pain patients, who were supposed to be on oxy for a limited amount of time but got hooked.
BobbyJo 2y ago
> You’re saying “created excess demand” like the people that you’re referring to weren’t chronic pain patients. When a pain patient becomes an addict, their demand tends to be in excess of their prescription. I don't think anything you're saying is a reasonable response to the comment you're responding to.
Retric 2y ago
You can directly count the total amount prescribed opioids through time and adjust for potency. Purdue Pharma didn’t just manufacture a drug. They did a great deal of behind the scenes manipulating so even people who did not seek out severe pain medication were prescribed extremely high doses. In terms of long term pain management opioids suck. People need increasing doses over time until the drugs side effects become toxic. Not such a problem in hospice or someone in an ambulance after a major accident, but handing them to people with chronic conditions guarantees a downward spiral. Perdue Pharma knew this, strait up lied about it, and even pleaded guilty to mislabeling OxyContin.
- zer00eyz 2y ago
  > total amount prescribed opioids through time This... Dr were involved too! > long term pain management opioids suck Opioids suck. And the medical profession was complicit. For a class that is supposed to be professional and well informed most Dr's are, shockingly, not that bright.
  - Retric 2y ago
    > Dr where involved too! The actions of individual Doctors acting on their own simply don’t explain trends. Doctors and the FDA etc were straight up lied to. I don’t think it’s reasonable to hold Doctors accountable for when some pharmaceutical company commits fraud. That doesn’t mean every doctor was blameless, but individual Doctors have always behaved poorly it was true before the opioid epidemic and it’s still true today.
    - zer00eyz 2y ago
      > Doctors and the FDA etc were straight up lied to Oh please. Doctors, did not believe the preponderance of evidence that ulcers were caused by bacteria. The reason, the person who discovered it was a vet. They had to give the man a Nobel Prize to get Dr's to pry their heads out of their self aggrandizing asses and pay attention to reality. Opioids were addictive. They never stoped being that. Dr's were fiscally motivated to prescribe. Nothing more nothing less.
darth_avocado 2y ago
> You’re saying “created excess demand” like the people that you’re referring to weren’t chronic pain patients. I don’t think you know the full history of how Purdue operated. They did two things: downplay how addictive oxy was & aggressively push oxy through doctors by providing kickbacks. Chronic pain patients were actually a much smaller portion of the eventual victims. In a lot of cases, normal people would be prescribed oxy after minor procedures and they would get hooked on it and become permanent addicts. Once hooked, doctors would continue prescribing it for far longer and create a perpetual dependency. If the true effects of oxy were made public (which were known by Purdue pharma and Sackler family), oxy would’ve been prescribed with a lot more caution. And prescription of oxy for minor pain would’ve been non existent since a lot of safer alternatives existed. I’m sorry you have a chronic condition, but not everyone who got hooked onto oxy had chronic conditions, and nor were they junkies.
lupusreal 2y ago
When I was a teenager I had my wisdom teeth removed and was prescribed Oxy. My mother was smart enough to not fill that prescription and gave me some ibuprofen instead. I was fine, the OTC painkillers were completely adaquate. Taking that Oxy would have been totally unnecessary and potentially life ruining.

by jnovek 2y ago

d4mi3n 2y ago

> You’re saying “created excess demand” like the people that you’re referring to weren’t chronic pain patients. > I know some of them were drug-seekers but we decided it was OK to throw chronic pain patients under the bus so we could eliminate those drug-seekers. To the GPs point, the cause of the regulation was the abuse of the sale. Many deaths were caused by aggressively selling oxy to folks who weren’t managing pain. The fallout has resulted into harm with people that have a legitimate need for pain management. Both can be true. The Sacklers are the culprits any way you slice it.

skellera 2y ago

Even the chronic pain patients should not have had the amounts prescribed to them that they were. Doctors were incentivized to give as much as possible. Creating addicts in people who may otherwise would not have been. I personally knew people getting more than a cancer patient should’ve been given for day to day chronic pain. I’m sorry if you were personally affected by regulation but that doesn’t mean they didn’t cause the crisis.

clhodapp 2y ago

Do remember that some of them were acute pain patients, who were supposed to be on oxy for a limited amount of time but got hooked.

BobbyJo 2y ago

> You’re saying “created excess demand” like the people that you’re referring to weren’t chronic pain patients. When a pain patient becomes an addict, their demand tends to be in excess of their prescription. I don't think anything you're saying is a reasonable response to the comment you're responding to.

Retric 2y ago

You can directly count the total amount prescribed opioids through time and adjust for potency. Purdue Pharma didn’t just manufacture a drug. They did a great deal of behind the scenes manipulating so even people who did not seek out severe pain medication were prescribed extremely high doses. In terms of long term pain management opioids suck. People need increasing doses over time until the drugs side effects become toxic. Not such a problem in hospice or someone in an ambulance after a major accident, but handing them to people with chronic conditions guarantees a downward spiral. Perdue Pharma knew this, strait up lied about it, and even pleaded guilty to mislabeling OxyContin.

zer00eyz 2y ago
> total amount prescribed opioids through time This... Dr were involved too! > long term pain management opioids suck Opioids suck. And the medical profession was complicit. For a class that is supposed to be professional and well informed most Dr's are, shockingly, not that bright.
- Retric 2y ago
  > Dr where involved too! The actions of individual Doctors acting on their own simply don’t explain trends. Doctors and the FDA etc were straight up lied to. I don’t think it’s reasonable to hold Doctors accountable for when some pharmaceutical company commits fraud. That doesn’t mean every doctor was blameless, but individual Doctors have always behaved poorly it was true before the opioid epidemic and it’s still true today.
  - zer00eyz 2y ago
    > Doctors and the FDA etc were straight up lied to Oh please. Doctors, did not believe the preponderance of evidence that ulcers were caused by bacteria. The reason, the person who discovered it was a vet. They had to give the man a Nobel Prize to get Dr's to pry their heads out of their self aggrandizing asses and pay attention to reality. Opioids were addictive. They never stoped being that. Dr's were fiscally motivated to prescribe. Nothing more nothing less.

darth_avocado 2y ago

> You’re saying “created excess demand” like the people that you’re referring to weren’t chronic pain patients. I don’t think you know the full history of how Purdue operated. They did two things: downplay how addictive oxy was & aggressively push oxy through doctors by providing kickbacks. Chronic pain patients were actually a much smaller portion of the eventual victims. In a lot of cases, normal people would be prescribed oxy after minor procedures and they would get hooked on it and become permanent addicts. Once hooked, doctors would continue prescribing it for far longer and create a perpetual dependency. If the true effects of oxy were made public (which were known by Purdue pharma and Sackler family), oxy would’ve been prescribed with a lot more caution. And prescription of oxy for minor pain would’ve been non existent since a lot of safer alternatives existed. I’m sorry you have a chronic condition, but not everyone who got hooked onto oxy had chronic conditions, and nor were they junkies.

lupusreal 2y ago

When I was a teenager I had my wisdom teeth removed and was prescribed Oxy. My mother was smart enough to not fill that prescription and gave me some ibuprofen instead. I was fine, the OTC painkillers were completely adaquate. Taking that Oxy would have been totally unnecessary and potentially life ruining.