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> "things we eat that bear little resemblance to the food we have evolved on" Okay. So are we ready to ban bread? Is that really what you're proposing? Or whi

> "things we eat that bear little resemblance to the food we have evolved on" Okay. So are we ready to ban bread? Is that really what you're proposing? Or white-rice? > Industrially manufactured food products made up of several ingredients (formulations) including sugar, oils, fats and salt (generally in combination and in higher amounts than in processed foods) and food substances of no or rare culinary use (such as high-fructose corn syrup, hydrogenated oils, modified starches and protein isolates). So Lays potato chips (only Potatoes, Oil, and Salt on the ingredients list) don't need a warning label? McDonalds fries and potato chips are fine because they're all natural ingredients, amirite?

milchek 2y ago
Not here to argue your point, just to note that McDonalds fries are not as natural as people think, ie. most people assume they’re just potatoes fried in some oil. “French Fries Ingredients: Potatoes, Vegetable Oil (canola Oil, Corn Oil, Soybean Oil, Hydrogenated Soybean Oil, Natural Beef Flavor [wheat And Milk Derivatives]), Dextrose, Sodium Acid Pyrophosphate (maintain Color), Salt. natural Beef Flavor Contains Hydrolyzed Wheat And Hydrolyzed Milk As Starting Ingredients. Contains: Wheat, Milk.” Source: https://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en-us/product/small-french-fries.html#accordion-c921f9207b-item-283bee7dbd https://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en-us/product/small-french-frie...
- dragontamer 2y ago
  Fair. I guess replace my earlier comment with Five Guys fries then. https://www.fiveguys.com/-/media/public-site/files/allergen-ingredients-and-nutrition-info/allergen-guide/nutrition-allergen-march-2018-us.ashx https://www.fiveguys.com/-/media/public-site/files/allergen-... > Five Guys Style [Fries]: Potatoes, Refined Peanut Oil, Salt Its gonna make you fat and clog your arteries either way. ---------- My point is that "processing" food doesn't seem to make it more, or less, healthy. The amount of "processing" that Pasta has (Dry the Flour, Wet the Flour, Dry the Pasta, Wet the Pasta/Boil it, and sometimes further Drying+Wetting steps after that) is one of those running jokes in culinary circles.
  - alan-hn 2y ago
    More processing usually equates to more refining which means removal of micro nutrients. So yes, while five guys fries will make you fat if you eat too many they at least contain the normal micro nutrients of potatoes without added preservatives that may cause other problems
    - dragontamer 2y ago
      Are you saying French Fries (Simply cut Potatoes, oil + salt) are healthier for you than Pasta? (Ground grain, dried, wet, combined with Eggs, dried again, combined with various sauces made from oils, often dried herbs and other such ingredients) Because Pasta is a hell of a lot more "processed" than a typical French Fry
      - alan-hn 2y ago
        You're comparing oranges to orangutans Not only are they cooked differently but you've added extra non processed stuff to the pasta and culminated in using a simple sweeping term of "healthy" You can also add herbs to fries and cook them in an air fryer. What about if I add broccoli to the fries and throw some hot sauce on? Both of those things have a place in a well balanced diet
        dragontamer 2y ago
        Bleached, fortified white flour is an incredibly processed ingredient. It's also got nothing to do with health (or lack thereof). I guarantee you there are fewer processing involved in Five Guys French Fries compared to white flour alone, let alone all the extra steps before you have a good meal. Do you think there is a Pesto recipe that has less processing than the typical oils used for French Fries? ------- I'm simply pointing out that a Bowl of Spaghetti + Pesto on it is highly processed. To far greater degrees than highly unhealthy and fattening foods we already know about.
msteffen 2y ago
I posted my own understanding above (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40816168 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40816168) but since those are good examples, my understanding is: Lay’s potato chips: not UPF McDonald’s fries: UPF due to the presence of beef flavor, hydrogenated oils, and other similar ingredients.
zug_zug 2y ago
> So are we ready to ban bread? You're arguing in bad faith. Nobody said banning, the article said that there should be warning labels. So yes, people should be aware that when they get a wonderbread sandwhich it has more sugar added to it than a dumdum lollipop. Some other breads are much less processed though. > So Lays potato chips (only Potatoes, Oil, and Salt on the ingredients list) don't need a warning label? "Potato chips are made through processes like frying, adding artificial flavorings, colorings, and preservatives. They are designed to be convenient and hyper-palatable, fitting the definition of ultra-processed foods." What I am saying is that stores should delineate products that are solely a source of calories from those that meet our nutritional needs. A red/yellow/green system would be useful. Or warning labels.
- dragontamer 2y ago
  > "Potato chips are made through processes like frying, adding artificial flavorings, colorings, and preservatives. They are designed to be convenient and hyper-palatable, fitting the definition of ultra-processed foods." Lays Potato chips are made up of only Potatoes, Oil, and Salt. Its as simple as you're going to get. I get that you're trying to make "Ultraprocessed" actually encapsulate "unhealthy foods", but there's no colorings here. Its just carbs, oil, and salt. Of which many Breads have a similar set of ingredients. Your typical Pesto or other "healthy and organic" dips have more processing than Lay's Potato Chips. That's the thing. I know that Ultraprocessed is just a word tossed around with no definition. Its just everything "wrong" with today's food that rallies up a crowd, but no one has ever actually defined "Ultraprocessed" in a way that matches what normal people understand as "healthy" vs "unhealthy". In any case, I'm actually for things like increased soda-taxes and other penalties to provably unhealthy foods. But we need to get the definition correct, and "Ultraprocessed" is such a bad baseline for discussion.
  - alan-hn 2y ago
    How long do you think humans have been cooking food

milchek 2y ago

Not here to argue your point, just to note that McDonalds fries are not as natural as people think, ie. most people assume they’re just potatoes fried in some oil. “French Fries Ingredients: Potatoes, Vegetable Oil (canola Oil, Corn Oil, Soybean Oil, Hydrogenated Soybean Oil, Natural Beef Flavor [wheat And Milk Derivatives]), Dextrose, Sodium Acid Pyrophosphate (maintain Color), Salt. natural Beef Flavor Contains Hydrolyzed Wheat And Hydrolyzed Milk As Starting Ingredients. Contains: Wheat, Milk.” Source: https://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en-us/product/small-french-fries.html#accordion-c921f9207b-item-283bee7dbd https://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en-us/product/small-french-frie...

dragontamer 2y ago
Fair. I guess replace my earlier comment with Five Guys fries then. https://www.fiveguys.com/-/media/public-site/files/allergen-ingredients-and-nutrition-info/allergen-guide/nutrition-allergen-march-2018-us.ashx https://www.fiveguys.com/-/media/public-site/files/allergen-... > Five Guys Style [Fries]: Potatoes, Refined Peanut Oil, Salt Its gonna make you fat and clog your arteries either way. ---------- My point is that "processing" food doesn't seem to make it more, or less, healthy. The amount of "processing" that Pasta has (Dry the Flour, Wet the Flour, Dry the Pasta, Wet the Pasta/Boil it, and sometimes further Drying+Wetting steps after that) is one of those running jokes in culinary circles.
- alan-hn 2y ago
  More processing usually equates to more refining which means removal of micro nutrients. So yes, while five guys fries will make you fat if you eat too many they at least contain the normal micro nutrients of potatoes without added preservatives that may cause other problems
  - dragontamer 2y ago
    Are you saying French Fries (Simply cut Potatoes, oil + salt) are healthier for you than Pasta? (Ground grain, dried, wet, combined with Eggs, dried again, combined with various sauces made from oils, often dried herbs and other such ingredients) Because Pasta is a hell of a lot more "processed" than a typical French Fry
    - alan-hn 2y ago
      You're comparing oranges to orangutans Not only are they cooked differently but you've added extra non processed stuff to the pasta and culminated in using a simple sweeping term of "healthy" You can also add herbs to fries and cook them in an air fryer. What about if I add broccoli to the fries and throw some hot sauce on? Both of those things have a place in a well balanced diet
      - dragontamer 2y ago
        Bleached, fortified white flour is an incredibly processed ingredient. It's also got nothing to do with health (or lack thereof). I guarantee you there are fewer processing involved in Five Guys French Fries compared to white flour alone, let alone all the extra steps before you have a good meal. Do you think there is a Pesto recipe that has less processing than the typical oils used for French Fries? ------- I'm simply pointing out that a Bowl of Spaghetti + Pesto on it is highly processed. To far greater degrees than highly unhealthy and fattening foods we already know about.

msteffen 2y ago

I posted my own understanding above (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40816168 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40816168) but since those are good examples, my understanding is: Lay’s potato chips: not UPF McDonald’s fries: UPF due to the presence of beef flavor, hydrogenated oils, and other similar ingredients.

zug_zug 2y ago

> So are we ready to ban bread? You're arguing in bad faith. Nobody said banning, the article said that there should be warning labels. So yes, people should be aware that when they get a wonderbread sandwhich it has more sugar added to it than a dumdum lollipop. Some other breads are much less processed though. > So Lays potato chips (only Potatoes, Oil, and Salt on the ingredients list) don't need a warning label? "Potato chips are made through processes like frying, adding artificial flavorings, colorings, and preservatives. They are designed to be convenient and hyper-palatable, fitting the definition of ultra-processed foods." What I am saying is that stores should delineate products that are solely a source of calories from those that meet our nutritional needs. A red/yellow/green system would be useful. Or warning labels.

dragontamer 2y ago
> "Potato chips are made through processes like frying, adding artificial flavorings, colorings, and preservatives. They are designed to be convenient and hyper-palatable, fitting the definition of ultra-processed foods." Lays Potato chips are made up of only Potatoes, Oil, and Salt. Its as simple as you're going to get. I get that you're trying to make "Ultraprocessed" actually encapsulate "unhealthy foods", but there's no colorings here. Its just carbs, oil, and salt. Of which many Breads have a similar set of ingredients. Your typical Pesto or other "healthy and organic" dips have more processing than Lay's Potato Chips. That's the thing. I know that Ultraprocessed is just a word tossed around with no definition. Its just everything "wrong" with today's food that rallies up a crowd, but no one has ever actually defined "Ultraprocessed" in a way that matches what normal people understand as "healthy" vs "unhealthy". In any case, I'm actually for things like increased soda-taxes and other penalties to provably unhealthy foods. But we need to get the definition correct, and "Ultraprocessed" is such a bad baseline for discussion.
- alan-hn 2y ago
  How long do you think humans have been cooking food