4 ms·
It's evil.
by ganzuul 2y ago
It's evil.
- fragmede 2y agoIt's the market being efficient. Markets solve everything, yay!
- esd_g0d 2y agoWhat do you propose instead in this case? Not trying to be snarky, just to get the discussion rolling. Asking everyone to "play nice" or "don't be evil" also often does not work in practice. I mean I'd love it if it did, but such is life.
- fragmede 2y agoI want the FDA to get meta and be empowerd to say if you add sesame to everything just to work around our rules, we'll fine you, because we're not idiots.
- kbelder 2y agoMarkets respond to regulation, and are distorted by it. It's not a problem with the market.
- morsch 2y agoEfficient markets enforcing centralized mass manufacturing of low quality baked goods is what caused the problem in the first place.
- llamaimperative 2y agoThis is a really counterproductive way to try to understand problems like this. No one is trying to do anything evil. Every step is individually quite reasonable and well within ethical bounds. The issue is that you can produce systems comprised solely of reasonable and ethical decisions that nonetheless yield an outcome that every actor would describe as bad. That is a useful way to interpret this situation and others, because you don’t waste your time looking for a boogeyman to call Evil and instead it prompts you to zoom out and operate on the bigger picture.
- esd_g0d 2y agoThis, a million times. My dream is "game theory" taught in schools, so we can all more productively discuss public policy, etc. The field of "mechanism design" may interest those to whom this speaks to. From Wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanism_design https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanism_design): > Mechanism design is a branch of economics, social choice theory, and game theory that deals with designing games (or mechanisms) to implement a given social choice function. Because it starts at the end of the game (the optimal result) and then works backwards to find a game that implements it, it is sometimes called reverse game theory.
- llamaimperative 2y agoHave you found any good books on mechanism design for laypeople? I picked one up (can’t remember the name) but it was quite textbooky and mathy, and I’d prefer to start with a more conceptual overview.
- sadboi31 2y agoA little adjacent but The Systems Thinking Playbook: Exercises to stretch and Build Learning and Systems Thinking Capabilities might hit.
- CoastalCoder 2y agoI agree with the pragmatism of your suggested approach. But I think it's a stretch to say nobody is being evil or unethical, because there's no consensus about what those entail.
- ganzuul 2y agoThe bad outcome can be yielded in a very short number of steps. If perceived and not acted upon, what is that? How long must it go on until we say "No, this is evil."?
- llamaimperative 2y ago> If perceived and not acted upon, what is that? It’s a coordination problem. > How long must it go on They can last indefinitely at immense cost. > until we say "No, this is evil."? Call it evil for as long as you want, especially if you’d prefer it remain unsolved. When you feel like solving it, a different framing will be much more useful.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- daedrdev 2y agoThe bakers cannot eliminate the risk of certain production lines from having cross contamination with any reasonable amount of money (like they would need to redo entire factories). So, for those products they introduce the contaminant on purpose to ensure all products that they cannot eliminate the risk for get labeled reduce the chance of someone dying from eating it. Now I'm not saying thats what they did, perhaps they were scumbags, but its possible they did try to do what I said above and had the best intentions.