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> Can somebody give me another reason why they did this--"coincidentally" all at the same time--other than to deliberatly lower our salaries? Market actors res

> Can somebody give me another reason why they did this--"coincidentally" all at the same time--other than to deliberatly lower our salaries? Market actors respond to market forces. Information cascades are real. Etc. There are plenty of reasons we see lots of people doing the same thing at the same time that does not actually require any sort of direct coordination or conspiracy.

rhelz 2y ago
Well, can you give me something a bit more specific and less tautological than "Market actors respond to market forces" What, exactly was the "market force" they are reacting to here? Is it even a market responding to market forces, or a market's efficiency being compromised by market manipulation?
- Arnt 2y ago
  The HR dept that's hiring guesses that with all the recent layoffs, people might accept a low offer, and tries one. With a few tries and candidates, the HR dept has guessed a new salary level.
  - rhelz 2y ago
    Sure. But the layoffs have not stopped...so next year, people will accept an even lower salary level....etc etc. Lowering the salaries at all during a time of record profits is a violation of the social contract, and should not be acceptable. But somehow, it's become the new normal.
- Eridrus 2y ago
  The biggest factor is that internet companies experienced a huge boom during COVID and hired assuming this boom was permanent, but it turned out to be temporary, so they ended up with more staff than they needed, particularly when growth seemed to stall. With a glut of people on the market companies naturally needed to pay less to hire them, leading to a general depressed wage level for new hires.
  - rhelz 2y ago
    Is the boom over? I don't see a lot of companies posting declining revenue. Seems to me most everybody is still breaking new records every quarter.
    - Eridrus 2y ago
      The COVID boom was basically over at the end of 2021, and all of 2022 was quite flat with minimal growth, and we did not return to growth until 2023. With the benefit of hindsight, we can see 2023 as a return to growth, but it's hard to tell those early signs as different to noise without seeing the rest of the chart going into late 2023/2024. Big tech companies have recovered now, but hiring is still restrained since they found they had a lot of work that could be cut, and nobody is excited to do layoffs again in general. Layoffs were very bad for morale.

rhelz 2y ago

Well, can you give me something a bit more specific and less tautological than "Market actors respond to market forces" What, exactly was the "market force" they are reacting to here? Is it even a market responding to market forces, or a market's efficiency being compromised by market manipulation?

Arnt 2y ago
The HR dept that's hiring guesses that with all the recent layoffs, people might accept a low offer, and tries one. With a few tries and candidates, the HR dept has guessed a new salary level.
- rhelz 2y ago
  Sure. But the layoffs have not stopped...so next year, people will accept an even lower salary level....etc etc. Lowering the salaries at all during a time of record profits is a violation of the social contract, and should not be acceptable. But somehow, it's become the new normal.
Eridrus 2y ago
The biggest factor is that internet companies experienced a huge boom during COVID and hired assuming this boom was permanent, but it turned out to be temporary, so they ended up with more staff than they needed, particularly when growth seemed to stall. With a glut of people on the market companies naturally needed to pay less to hire them, leading to a general depressed wage level for new hires.
- rhelz 2y ago
  Is the boom over? I don't see a lot of companies posting declining revenue. Seems to me most everybody is still breaking new records every quarter.
  - Eridrus 2y ago
    The COVID boom was basically over at the end of 2021, and all of 2022 was quite flat with minimal growth, and we did not return to growth until 2023. With the benefit of hindsight, we can see 2023 as a return to growth, but it's hard to tell those early signs as different to noise without seeing the rest of the chart going into late 2023/2024. Big tech companies have recovered now, but hiring is still restrained since they found they had a lot of work that could be cut, and nobody is excited to do layoffs again in general. Layoffs were very bad for morale.