3 ms·

the choice to have sex with someone or be fired is not a legitimate choice and framing it as one is also illegitimate. do you have a better suggestion for a te

the choice to have sex with someone or be fired is not a legitimate choice and framing it as one is also illegitimate. do you have a better suggestion for a term you would prefer?

BoredPositron 2y ago
It is choice. That's the whole point of the discussion you might not like the choice you would have to take but it still is. If you want to convey that you get extorted do so but use the right words.
- Vt71fcAqt7 2y ago
  Force does not mean "no choice." >to make something happen or make someone do something difficult, unpleasant, or unusual, especially by threatening or not offering the possibility of choice[0] (notice or here) >If someone forces you to do something, they make you do it even though you do not want to, for example, by threatening you.[1] >to make someone do something that they do not want to do >I was forced to take a taxi because the last bus had left.[2] [0] https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/force https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/force [1] https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/force https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/forc... [2] https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/force_2 https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/ame...
  - BoredPositron 2y ago
    Yeah, still nobody can "force you to trust" anything. They might force you to comply with something but they can't force you to trust. That's just nonsense.
    - Vt71fcAqt7 2y ago
      I didn't commend on that. I commented on you replying "no" to the question "If your boss tells you you'll lose your job if you don't have sex with him, and you quit to avoid that, would you disagree with the statement that you were forced to quit?" after which you edited all your previous comments. The first of which originally just read "force?" (a single word) which leads me to believe, along with your original response to the point I initially commented on, that you didn't have that point in mind. Also, "tust" in "force people to trust the medical industry" clearly means something along the lines of "to commit or place in one's care or keeping."[0] But that point is irrelevant because you made up that point after my initial response. [0] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/trust https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/trust
      - BoredPositron 2y ago
        I edited my first comment to clarify and nothing else and YOU commented on that. We can throw dictionaries on each other however we want for me it still stands as long as you have agency over yourself nobody can force you to do anything. If they take away your agency we can talk about your arguments. But looking at your last comment you are not arguing in good faith so the discussion is over me.
        Vt71fcAqt7 2y ago
        >I edited my first comment to clarify and nothing else You edited "No, words have meanings" to "No, words have specific meanings that should accurately reflect the nuances of the situation at hand." You also edited "So?" (single word) to 'So? "Force to trust" like op wrote made absolutely no sense.' >for me it still stands as long as you have agency over yourself nobody can force you to do anything. It can and often does mean that though. Here's a list of 170,000 books using the phrase "forced to trust" https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&q=%22forced+to+trust%22 https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&q=%22forced+to+trust%2...
        BoredPositron 2y ago
        Both edits are for clarity and don't change the meaning of the comments... and both edits are not in our comment chain. You seem to have another agenda here and I really won't entertain it anymore. We have different views of what force means. One is rather clear and the other one is nitpicking to get an agenda across. Nobody forced anyone to get vaccinated and nobody forced anyone to blindly trust medical professionals. There are billions of people who didn't get vaccinated. You might want it to be but it's not the reality we live in. Reality is what doesn't change if you stop believing in it.
        Vt71fcAqt7 2y ago
        >both edits are not in our comment chain The first edit I mentioned is in this comment chain and the second one was in response to my post in a different chain. >Nobody forced anyone to get vaccinated Really? This is trivially false. For example vaccination was extensively mandated in several countries by law, for example some provinces in China.[0] In the US certain states require proof of vaccination for certain activities. For example in New York vaccination is required to go to school.[1] Perhaps you meant "not all people were forced to get vaccinated?" That is not being debated here. In any case I never even made an argument about this point until now. And in any case I don't feel too strongly about whether "force" is the right word to describe vaccine mandates. My only points were that if your boss tells you you'll lose your job if you don't have sex with him he has forced you to quit (assuming you cannot get him fired, for example if you have no proof he said that and will continue harassing you) and secondly that "forced to trust" is not complete nonsense. >You seem to have another agenda here You're the one that tried to say that a boss extorting sex isn't considered forcing you to quit your job in order to maintain your position. My point was actually fairly clear and not even about vaccination. >One is rather clear and the other one is nitpicking to get an agenda across. I would agree except you're not even nitpicking you're just claiming that whatever you decide "force" means is the one that OP must hold by as opposed to "throwing dictionaries" at the problem. [0] https://doi.org/10.2147/RMHP.S336434 https://doi.org/10.2147/RMHP.S336434 [1] https://www.health.ny.gov/prevention/immunization/schools/school_vaccines/ https://www.health.ny.gov/prevention/immunization/schools/sc...

the choice to have sex with someone or be fired is not a legitimate choice and framing it as one is also illegitimate. do you have a better suggestion for a term you would prefer?

BoredPositron 2y ago

It is choice. That's the whole point of the discussion you might not like the choice you would have to take but it still is. If you want to convey that you get extorted do so but use the right words.

Vt71fcAqt7 2y ago
Force does not mean "no choice." >to make something happen or make someone do something difficult, unpleasant, or unusual, especially by threatening or not offering the possibility of choice[0] (notice or here) >If someone forces you to do something, they make you do it even though you do not want to, for example, by threatening you.[1] >to make someone do something that they do not want to do >I was forced to take a taxi because the last bus had left.[2] [0] https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/force https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/force [1] https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/force https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/forc... [2] https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/force_2 https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/ame...
- BoredPositron 2y ago
  Yeah, still nobody can "force you to trust" anything. They might force you to comply with something but they can't force you to trust. That's just nonsense.
  - Vt71fcAqt7 2y ago
    I didn't commend on that. I commented on you replying "no" to the question "If your boss tells you you'll lose your job if you don't have sex with him, and you quit to avoid that, would you disagree with the statement that you were forced to quit?" after which you edited all your previous comments. The first of which originally just read "force?" (a single word) which leads me to believe, along with your original response to the point I initially commented on, that you didn't have that point in mind. Also, "tust" in "force people to trust the medical industry" clearly means something along the lines of "to commit or place in one's care or keeping."[0] But that point is irrelevant because you made up that point after my initial response. [0] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/trust https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/trust
    - BoredPositron 2y ago
      I edited my first comment to clarify and nothing else and YOU commented on that. We can throw dictionaries on each other however we want for me it still stands as long as you have agency over yourself nobody can force you to do anything. If they take away your agency we can talk about your arguments. But looking at your last comment you are not arguing in good faith so the discussion is over me.
      - Vt71fcAqt7 2y ago
        >I edited my first comment to clarify and nothing else You edited "No, words have meanings" to "No, words have specific meanings that should accurately reflect the nuances of the situation at hand." You also edited "So?" (single word) to 'So? "Force to trust" like op wrote made absolutely no sense.' >for me it still stands as long as you have agency over yourself nobody can force you to do anything. It can and often does mean that though. Here's a list of 170,000 books using the phrase "forced to trust" https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&q=%22forced+to+trust%22 https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&q=%22forced+to+trust%2...
        BoredPositron 2y ago
        Both edits are for clarity and don't change the meaning of the comments... and both edits are not in our comment chain. You seem to have another agenda here and I really won't entertain it anymore. We have different views of what force means. One is rather clear and the other one is nitpicking to get an agenda across. Nobody forced anyone to get vaccinated and nobody forced anyone to blindly trust medical professionals. There are billions of people who didn't get vaccinated. You might want it to be but it's not the reality we live in. Reality is what doesn't change if you stop believing in it.
        Vt71fcAqt7 2y ago
        >both edits are not in our comment chain The first edit I mentioned is in this comment chain and the second one was in response to my post in a different chain. >Nobody forced anyone to get vaccinated Really? This is trivially false. For example vaccination was extensively mandated in several countries by law, for example some provinces in China.[0] In the US certain states require proof of vaccination for certain activities. For example in New York vaccination is required to go to school.[1] Perhaps you meant "not all people were forced to get vaccinated?" That is not being debated here. In any case I never even made an argument about this point until now. And in any case I don't feel too strongly about whether "force" is the right word to describe vaccine mandates. My only points were that if your boss tells you you'll lose your job if you don't have sex with him he has forced you to quit (assuming you cannot get him fired, for example if you have no proof he said that and will continue harassing you) and secondly that "forced to trust" is not complete nonsense. >You seem to have another agenda here You're the one that tried to say that a boss extorting sex isn't considered forcing you to quit your job in order to maintain your position. My point was actually fairly clear and not even about vaccination. >One is rather clear and the other one is nitpicking to get an agenda across. I would agree except you're not even nitpicking you're just claiming that whatever you decide "force" means is the one that OP must hold by as opposed to "throwing dictionaries" at the problem. [0] https://doi.org/10.2147/RMHP.S336434 https://doi.org/10.2147/RMHP.S336434 [1] https://www.health.ny.gov/prevention/immunization/schools/school_vaccines/ https://www.health.ny.gov/prevention/immunization/schools/sc...