4 ms·

> is it really so bad to want to dress differently and get a new name? It's not that hard to accommodate and doesn't hurt anyone. If it was just about dressing

> is it really so bad to want to dress differently and get a new name? It's not that hard to accommodate and doesn't hurt anyone. If it was just about dressing differently and changing one's name, almost no-one would care. The main problem that has drawn such attention to this topic in the past few years is that of males demanding and being granted access to female spaces, on the basis of their self-declared "gender identity". This has harmed women and girls. In prisons, female prisoners being sexually assaulted, raped, impregnated by male inmates transferred to the women's prisons. In sports, female athletes being pushed out of their own competitions by males, and for contact sports, serious injuries from these males. Women and girls being indecently exposed to by males who've been allowed into locker rooms, changing rooms, nude spas, and similar places of undress. Basically, male desires are being given more importance than the needs of women and girls. And feminists who speak out on this get harassed, threatened, assaulted by angry males who can't bear to be told "no". The other hugely controversial issue is the provision of "gender affirming care" to children. Breast removal for girls who want to be boys, some as young as 12. Castration and penis surgery for boys who want to be girls, the youngest recorded being 16 years old. The harms from puberty blocking drugs. With an increasing number of detransitioners now speaking up against all this too. People don't just hold "anti-trans" views for no reason. It's because the ideology behind it has such harmful effects on women and children when it's implemented in the real world.

spencerflem 2y ago
I'ma call you out here: "If it was just about dressing differently and changing one's name, almost no-one would care." You don't actually believe this, and if you did you wouldn't exclusively refer to trans women as "males" in your comment.
- greenbadger 2y ago
  Well they are male, just like any other male. How a person dresses or is named doesn't change their sex. It really doesn't matter what someone wears or what they call themselves. Hence the issue with (most of) this subset of males demanding to use female spaces. These spaces aren't for them.
  - spencerflem 2y ago
    I mean that's the question, right? Because while sex is biological (and there are biologically intersex people) gender is cultural & down to presentation. It's how its easy to imagine a boyish girl or vice versa. Nothing there is precisely defined. For almost everything, gender is what matters. People make a fuss about drag queens and effeminate men and shemales and all sorts of things that are purely gender expression. To the point where yeah, there are Some rare cases where biological gender is important, mostly in medicine, but most of the time its gender that we see and care about. What the trans people I know want is to be recognized as having the gender that fits with them. You wouldn't call a cis woman a 'female' in normal conversation, so why call trans-women 'males' when there's already two good ways to refer to them, 'trans women' when it matters or 'women' when it doesn't. But you seem to refuse to do that. So rather than debunk the "dangers of the scary transexual pervert" myth (when in actuality the more common violence happens to the trans people) I instead ask if that's really the only problem you have with trans people. Are you actually willing to recognize that they feel as strongly as their chosen gender as you do with your own, and that it hurts them to be demonized and misunderstood by society. Because I will admit that there Is some discussion, especially around sports, but the vast majority of time thats trotted out the underlying reason isn't some theoretical virtue of fairness but instead a rejection of the possibility of changing ones gender altogether.
    - turtle_heck 2y ago
      > What the trans people I know want is to be recognized as having the gender that fits with them. You wouldn't call a cis woman a 'female' in normal conversation, so why call trans-women 'males' when there's already two good ways to refer to them, 'trans women' when it matters or 'women' when it doesn't. > But you seem to refuse to do that. I don't understand why I am expected to partake in their delusion.
    - Izkata 2y ago
      I'm not sure if this is strawman or motte-and-bailey (leaning towards the latter), but you are continuing to ignore the group of people we're talking about and are instead only referring to a different and much easier to defend group that we're not talking about.

spencerflem 2y ago

I'ma call you out here: "If it was just about dressing differently and changing one's name, almost no-one would care." You don't actually believe this, and if you did you wouldn't exclusively refer to trans women as "males" in your comment.

greenbadger 2y ago
Well they are male, just like any other male. How a person dresses or is named doesn't change their sex. It really doesn't matter what someone wears or what they call themselves. Hence the issue with (most of) this subset of males demanding to use female spaces. These spaces aren't for them.
- spencerflem 2y ago
  I mean that's the question, right? Because while sex is biological (and there are biologically intersex people) gender is cultural & down to presentation. It's how its easy to imagine a boyish girl or vice versa. Nothing there is precisely defined. For almost everything, gender is what matters. People make a fuss about drag queens and effeminate men and shemales and all sorts of things that are purely gender expression. To the point where yeah, there are Some rare cases where biological gender is important, mostly in medicine, but most of the time its gender that we see and care about. What the trans people I know want is to be recognized as having the gender that fits with them. You wouldn't call a cis woman a 'female' in normal conversation, so why call trans-women 'males' when there's already two good ways to refer to them, 'trans women' when it matters or 'women' when it doesn't. But you seem to refuse to do that. So rather than debunk the "dangers of the scary transexual pervert" myth (when in actuality the more common violence happens to the trans people) I instead ask if that's really the only problem you have with trans people. Are you actually willing to recognize that they feel as strongly as their chosen gender as you do with your own, and that it hurts them to be demonized and misunderstood by society. Because I will admit that there Is some discussion, especially around sports, but the vast majority of time thats trotted out the underlying reason isn't some theoretical virtue of fairness but instead a rejection of the possibility of changing ones gender altogether.
  - turtle_heck 2y ago
    > What the trans people I know want is to be recognized as having the gender that fits with them. You wouldn't call a cis woman a 'female' in normal conversation, so why call trans-women 'males' when there's already two good ways to refer to them, 'trans women' when it matters or 'women' when it doesn't. > But you seem to refuse to do that. I don't understand why I am expected to partake in their delusion.
  - Izkata 2y ago
    I'm not sure if this is strawman or motte-and-bailey (leaning towards the latter), but you are continuing to ignore the group of people we're talking about and are instead only referring to a different and much easier to defend group that we're not talking about.