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Firstly PRISM was found unlawful. It violated FISA. Secondly, Stating spying Merkel and tapping her phone was legal is simplfying the issue greatly. It may be

Firstly PRISM was found unlawful. It violated FISA. Secondly, Stating spying Merkel and tapping her phone was legal is simplfying the issue greatly. It may be allowed by US law yet as was stated at the time, observing German Law on German soil may still mean it was an illegal act. As it was found in the investigation into the spying scandal that there were US spys working on German soil, it was therefore illegal. Therefore some think it exceeded the NSA's authority, which is nil in Germany. This also refers to spying on other nations being fair game, not following a countries law on their soil does not make it fair game, it makes it an illegal act. In regards to the many operational details leaked, the focus of that was to determine if or not their methods of spying are legitimate. These tools and procedures can on the surface have legal methods yet still be used in illegal methods, so it isn't as simple as saying they didn't think they exceeded the NSA's authority.

reaperman 2y ago
> Firstly PRISM was found unlawful. It violated FISA. I’m not able to find any court ruling which said this. PRISM still operates today. I believe some investigations found that there were “some” violations of section 702 but nothing systemic enough to warrant curtailing the program. I mean, I personally think it’s unlawful. But I don’t think it was ever legally determined to be.
- ktallett 2y ago
  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-54013527 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-54013527 I strongly doubt the US will curtail any plans whether they are found unlawful or not. Possibly one of the reasons so many have significant disdain for the US government and their activities.
  - reaperman 2y ago
    That article is about the large scale phone record metadata collection program, not PRISM. I already noted that “federal courts determined the [phone record metadata] program exceeded the authority granted by [section] 215” in my top post. AFAIK there’s been no similar court ruling against PRISM or other kind of official decision taken against the PRISM program.
reaperman 2y ago
> Therefore some think it exceeded the NSA's authority, which is nil in Germany. This is very false though. NSA absolutely has at least SOME authority to spy on Germany. Not just by American law but also Germany has provided the NSA with office space for up to 1,800 NSA employees to work in the town of Bad Aibling. Over the past two decades, the BND has helped the NSA spy on a variety of European targets, including German ones. https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/the-german-bnd-and-american-nsa-cooperate-more-closely-than-thought-a-975445.html https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/the-german-bnd-... > not following a countries law on their soil does not make it fair game, it makes it an illegal act. This makes no sense. That would mean any country, including Russia and North Korea, could make the NSA’s routine, intended activites “illegal” simply by passing a law saying “its illegal to spy on us”. What then? Every form of spying by any country is suddenly illegal?
- mistermann 2y ago
  > This makes no sense. That would mean any country, including Russia and North Korea, could make the NSA’s routine, intended activites “illegal” simply by passing a law saying “its illegal to spy on us”. What then? Permanent global disharmony, mass delusion, misallocation of resources, unnecessary suffering, etc? Actually, I suspect (our) nature would find a way anyways regardless of this one relatively trivial rule. The pursuit of suboptimal outcomes is hardwired into our culture, we demand it.
- ktallett 2y ago
  It has never been proven they legally have authority to spy on German citizens. That goes against Germany's constitution and is another case of a government acting illegally by turning a blind eye to the acts of the NSA and ignoring the rights of their citizens. Spying in some settings is absolutely illegal, no matter the country you are spying on, whether it be North Korea, Russia, or Fiji. It goes against their Sovereignity. Some forms outside of war is always illegal, satelite imagery, cyber hacking... etc. If the US would prosecute it such as the 7 hackers from China they indicted, then the other country rightfully can prosecute in American spys.

reaperman 2y ago

> Firstly PRISM was found unlawful. It violated FISA. I’m not able to find any court ruling which said this. PRISM still operates today. I believe some investigations found that there were “some” violations of section 702 but nothing systemic enough to warrant curtailing the program. I mean, I personally think it’s unlawful. But I don’t think it was ever legally determined to be.

ktallett 2y ago
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-54013527 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-54013527 I strongly doubt the US will curtail any plans whether they are found unlawful or not. Possibly one of the reasons so many have significant disdain for the US government and their activities.
- reaperman 2y ago
  That article is about the large scale phone record metadata collection program, not PRISM. I already noted that “federal courts determined the [phone record metadata] program exceeded the authority granted by [section] 215” in my top post. AFAIK there’s been no similar court ruling against PRISM or other kind of official decision taken against the PRISM program.

reaperman 2y ago

> Therefore some think it exceeded the NSA's authority, which is nil in Germany. This is very false though. NSA absolutely has at least SOME authority to spy on Germany. Not just by American law but also Germany has provided the NSA with office space for up to 1,800 NSA employees to work in the town of Bad Aibling. Over the past two decades, the BND has helped the NSA spy on a variety of European targets, including German ones. https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/the-german-bnd-and-american-nsa-cooperate-more-closely-than-thought-a-975445.html https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/the-german-bnd-... > not following a countries law on their soil does not make it fair game, it makes it an illegal act. This makes no sense. That would mean any country, including Russia and North Korea, could make the NSA’s routine, intended activites “illegal” simply by passing a law saying “its illegal to spy on us”. What then? Every form of spying by any country is suddenly illegal?

mistermann 2y ago
> This makes no sense. That would mean any country, including Russia and North Korea, could make the NSA’s routine, intended activites “illegal” simply by passing a law saying “its illegal to spy on us”. What then? Permanent global disharmony, mass delusion, misallocation of resources, unnecessary suffering, etc? Actually, I suspect (our) nature would find a way anyways regardless of this one relatively trivial rule. The pursuit of suboptimal outcomes is hardwired into our culture, we demand it.
ktallett 2y ago
It has never been proven they legally have authority to spy on German citizens. That goes against Germany's constitution and is another case of a government acting illegally by turning a blind eye to the acts of the NSA and ignoring the rights of their citizens. Spying in some settings is absolutely illegal, no matter the country you are spying on, whether it be North Korea, Russia, or Fiji. It goes against their Sovereignity. Some forms outside of war is always illegal, satelite imagery, cyber hacking... etc. If the US would prosecute it such as the 7 hackers from China they indicted, then the other country rightfully can prosecute in American spys.