4 ms·

Freight trains are great for moving huge quantities of freight from classification yard A to classification yard B (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classification

by rob74 2y ago

Freight trains are great for moving huge quantities of freight from classification yard A to classification yard B (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classification_yard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classification_yard), not so great for moving smaller quantities door-to-door. Ever wondered why, despite the existence of freight trains, there are still so many long-haul trucks driving around? Because freight trains aren't the answer to all logistics questions!

WJW 2y ago
Ya but the article is about a conveyor belt, which arguably has even less flexibility than even a freight train.
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  We've had sorting conveyor belts for decades. Amazon warehouses are full of them. Way more potential flexibility than a railway. (With downsides, of course.)
  - jvanderbot 2y ago
    So put a sorting conveyor belt at the end of a train line? I could see a conveyor if and only if it saves a bunch of complexity at source /destination, or if it can be built in places that would be much more expensive to make trainlines. After all trains are just concentrated cargo, and are therefore much heavier.
    - InDubioProRubio 2y ago
      Still have the loading from train to sorting container. But yes, if that could be automated efficiently, it would indeed be a good solution.
    - ceejayoz 2y ago
      > So put a sorting conveyor belt at the end of a train line? Done right, a conveyor can fairly seamlessly branch off at arbitrary locations along the way. Individual items can fan out onto smaller sub-branches without any significant delays; a long train has to stop and start to accomplish the same. I think the main challenge here would be the maintenance of such a thing. Rail requires plenty; a conveyor has many, many more moving parts over hundreds of miles.
- InDubioProRubio 2y ago
  Have you seen the automated sorting and distribution in a amazon warehouse? And yes, those are complex machines, but this way to build a logistics hub is way superior to 1:1 cranes. There is a difference between squential arrival and non-blocking sorting to various hubs to process. And arrival and blockign sequential move to a truck.
  - zer00eyz 2y ago
    Sure and the mass of a package is what? 50lbs max? Long distance = High volume = weight/mass. The laws of physics aren't changing any time soon. redirecting a cargo container like a box shooting through a warehouse would not end well for some portion of the system (including the contents)
    - hattmall 2y ago
      The idea is to replace TEUs with smaller more manageable standard though. Even though the art shows containers that's not what they are trying to do. In similar systems the proposal is like one cubic meter boxes with max of 100kg. Something easily manageable and can be switched and routed on a conveyor system.
      - zer00eyz 2y ago
        > The idea is to replace TEUs with smaller more manageable standard though. SO a pallet? > proposal is like one cubic meter boxes with max of 100kg. A pallet, the normal shitty wooden ones are rated for 10x that much mass. A cheap pallet jack is rated for 2500kg. I get what they are proposing. But it is disconnected from the realities of distance and mass... If you need to move 10 pallets of water does it make sense to make 10 trips in your car or 1 trip in a truck? Breaking down goods into smaller units doesn't change the amount of cargo it just creates congestion... It's like a high speed network without jumbo frames.
zer00eyz 2y ago
> Ever wondered why, despite the existence of freight trains, there are still so many long-haul trucks driving around? You don't think there aren't tons of spurs that drop 3-4 car loads of cargo on a semi frequent schedule? that there aren't spurs that move massive amounts of goods both in and out of production facilities? Just in Time moved a lot of cargo off rails and into trucks... that market is going away now as more planed and centralized logistics comes back into style. Transport costs were out of control but no one was paying attention to them... not the case any more.
mjbeswick 2y ago
Have you ever heard about the Royal Mail Underground which used to move mail across London? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Post_Office_Railway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Post_Office_Railway A small light railway between large cities makes sense where roads are congested and cannot be expanded.

by rob74 2y ago

WJW 2y ago

Ya but the article is about a conveyor belt, which arguably has even less flexibility than even a freight train.

ceejayoz 2y ago
We've had sorting conveyor belts for decades. Amazon warehouses are full of them. Way more potential flexibility than a railway. (With downsides, of course.)
- jvanderbot 2y ago
  So put a sorting conveyor belt at the end of a train line? I could see a conveyor if and only if it saves a bunch of complexity at source /destination, or if it can be built in places that would be much more expensive to make trainlines. After all trains are just concentrated cargo, and are therefore much heavier.
  - InDubioProRubio 2y ago
    Still have the loading from train to sorting container. But yes, if that could be automated efficiently, it would indeed be a good solution.
  - ceejayoz 2y ago
    > So put a sorting conveyor belt at the end of a train line? Done right, a conveyor can fairly seamlessly branch off at arbitrary locations along the way. Individual items can fan out onto smaller sub-branches without any significant delays; a long train has to stop and start to accomplish the same. I think the main challenge here would be the maintenance of such a thing. Rail requires plenty; a conveyor has many, many more moving parts over hundreds of miles.
InDubioProRubio 2y ago
Have you seen the automated sorting and distribution in a amazon warehouse? And yes, those are complex machines, but this way to build a logistics hub is way superior to 1:1 cranes. There is a difference between squential arrival and non-blocking sorting to various hubs to process. And arrival and blockign sequential move to a truck.
- zer00eyz 2y ago
  Sure and the mass of a package is what? 50lbs max? Long distance = High volume = weight/mass. The laws of physics aren't changing any time soon. redirecting a cargo container like a box shooting through a warehouse would not end well for some portion of the system (including the contents)
  - hattmall 2y ago
    The idea is to replace TEUs with smaller more manageable standard though. Even though the art shows containers that's not what they are trying to do. In similar systems the proposal is like one cubic meter boxes with max of 100kg. Something easily manageable and can be switched and routed on a conveyor system.
    - zer00eyz 2y ago
      > The idea is to replace TEUs with smaller more manageable standard though. SO a pallet? > proposal is like one cubic meter boxes with max of 100kg. A pallet, the normal shitty wooden ones are rated for 10x that much mass. A cheap pallet jack is rated for 2500kg. I get what they are proposing. But it is disconnected from the realities of distance and mass... If you need to move 10 pallets of water does it make sense to make 10 trips in your car or 1 trip in a truck? Breaking down goods into smaller units doesn't change the amount of cargo it just creates congestion... It's like a high speed network without jumbo frames.

zer00eyz 2y ago

> Ever wondered why, despite the existence of freight trains, there are still so many long-haul trucks driving around? You don't think there aren't tons of spurs that drop 3-4 car loads of cargo on a semi frequent schedule? that there aren't spurs that move massive amounts of goods both in and out of production facilities? Just in Time moved a lot of cargo off rails and into trucks... that market is going away now as more planed and centralized logistics comes back into style. Transport costs were out of control but no one was paying attention to them... not the case any more.

mjbeswick 2y ago

Have you ever heard about the Royal Mail Underground which used to move mail across London? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Post_Office_Railway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Post_Office_Railway A small light railway between large cities makes sense where roads are congested and cannot be expanded.