3 ms·

Many, like myself, move from a developing country to a developed country not to get a better job / more money, but instead we spend a great deal of money to get

Many, like myself, move from a developing country to a developed country not to get a better job / more money, but instead we spend a great deal of money to get away from lawlessness. It is precisely to get away from shenanigans like this. Now i am starting to think all the great efforts were in vain

exe34 2y ago
I think it's going downhill fast. I remember being 12 and watching bbc world news, every few months, after a scandal, you'd have a minister/high ranking official apologise and resign. it was completely different from the unapologetic cnuts at the head of my birth country at the time. now we have people like Dominic Cummings who basically broke his own rules and insisted it was fine for him to keep going until he was really forced out, and of course many more of these similar cases - some even lost to a salad.
mbivert 2y ago
The grass is always greener; we have a Bengali friend whose innocence regarding how things work in the West makes us smile.
xoa 2y ago
>Now i am starting to think all the great efforts were in vain This doesn't make any sense. The difference here vs a lawless dictatorial country isn't that humans are magically all perfect angels in developed countries, but what you're seeing here: investigation by society and people caring, able to talk about it, able to research, able to muster political will around it, able to change all of government in response. This sort of case of massive abuse and criminality by very powerful figures should be rare, but when it does happen there are still fallbacks. There is still a free press that can dig into it and report on it and apply pressure doggedly for years. There are separations of powers that make it more challenging for any one entity to suppress everything. In the UK they did a full TV miniseries around this, lots of articles in major papers, there is an ongoing podcast, vs sending the first journalist to ask questions to prison. There are still regular changes of government at the vote of the population, and in turn incentive for different groups of politicians and new generations of them to gain power by digging into malfeasance of existing ones. There can still be public inquiries long after the fact. The entire point of all the various checks and balances and defense is precisely to try to, eventually, steer things back onto the right track when, not if, they start to veer off. Humans are humans the world over. The slower, louder, argumentative processes of democracy and law are our so far best effort to try to corral that reality. Of course it would be better if such things just never happened at all, but getting from A to B has always been the challenge. Noisy popping of pus is gross but much better then letting it fester under the surface forever.
- bomewish 2y ago
  But if all that never results in actual consequences for those responsible, what good was it? Seems like theatre to make us feel good, then.
ralferoo 2y ago
> Now i am starting to think all the great efforts were in vain This is such a big story, precisely because it's rare that the judicial process goes this wrong, and so when it does everyone wants to know why and what can be changed to prevent a reoccurrence.
petesergeant 2y ago
> i am starting to think all the great efforts were in vain Get a grip. In developing countries these things are simply shoved under the carpet unless there’s a falling out in the political caste. The point of lawfulness isn’t that grift doesn’t happen, it’s that light is shed on it and those shining the light don’t end up dead in a ditch.
- pessimizer 2y ago
  Which country are you talking about? Or are you just making things up and applying them to every single non-Western, non-Northern country? The Chinese execute people for corruption. In Korea and Japan, executives kill themselves out of shame when they screw up. In Britain, every posh shithead handed a job is too important to fail.
  - petesergeant 2y ago
    Which are the developing countries you’ve lived in or are familiar with which are counter examples? I’m not sure people generally consider Korea and Japan to be developing countries. I get the strong impression that Chinese executives get in trouble when they lose political favour.

exe34 2y ago

I think it's going downhill fast. I remember being 12 and watching bbc world news, every few months, after a scandal, you'd have a minister/high ranking official apologise and resign. it was completely different from the unapologetic cnuts at the head of my birth country at the time. now we have people like Dominic Cummings who basically broke his own rules and insisted it was fine for him to keep going until he was really forced out, and of course many more of these similar cases - some even lost to a salad.

mbivert 2y ago

The grass is always greener; we have a Bengali friend whose innocence regarding how things work in the West makes us smile.

xoa 2y ago

>Now i am starting to think all the great efforts were in vain This doesn't make any sense. The difference here vs a lawless dictatorial country isn't that humans are magically all perfect angels in developed countries, but what you're seeing here: investigation by society and people caring, able to talk about it, able to research, able to muster political will around it, able to change all of government in response. This sort of case of massive abuse and criminality by very powerful figures should be rare, but when it does happen there are still fallbacks. There is still a free press that can dig into it and report on it and apply pressure doggedly for years. There are separations of powers that make it more challenging for any one entity to suppress everything. In the UK they did a full TV miniseries around this, lots of articles in major papers, there is an ongoing podcast, vs sending the first journalist to ask questions to prison. There are still regular changes of government at the vote of the population, and in turn incentive for different groups of politicians and new generations of them to gain power by digging into malfeasance of existing ones. There can still be public inquiries long after the fact. The entire point of all the various checks and balances and defense is precisely to try to, eventually, steer things back onto the right track when, not if, they start to veer off. Humans are humans the world over. The slower, louder, argumentative processes of democracy and law are our so far best effort to try to corral that reality. Of course it would be better if such things just never happened at all, but getting from A to B has always been the challenge. Noisy popping of pus is gross but much better then letting it fester under the surface forever.

bomewish 2y ago
But if all that never results in actual consequences for those responsible, what good was it? Seems like theatre to make us feel good, then.

ralferoo 2y ago

> Now i am starting to think all the great efforts were in vain This is such a big story, precisely because it's rare that the judicial process goes this wrong, and so when it does everyone wants to know why and what can be changed to prevent a reoccurrence.

petesergeant 2y ago

> i am starting to think all the great efforts were in vain Get a grip. In developing countries these things are simply shoved under the carpet unless there’s a falling out in the political caste. The point of lawfulness isn’t that grift doesn’t happen, it’s that light is shed on it and those shining the light don’t end up dead in a ditch.

pessimizer 2y ago
Which country are you talking about? Or are you just making things up and applying them to every single non-Western, non-Northern country? The Chinese execute people for corruption. In Korea and Japan, executives kill themselves out of shame when they screw up. In Britain, every posh shithead handed a job is too important to fail.
- petesergeant 2y ago
  Which are the developing countries you’ve lived in or are familiar with which are counter examples? I’m not sure people generally consider Korea and Japan to be developing countries. I get the strong impression that Chinese executives get in trouble when they lose political favour.