6 ms·

This also fits well with the theory that lack of deep sleep increases the risk of alzheimers and dementia: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/not-gettin

by j1mmie 2y ago

This also fits well with the theory that lack of deep sleep increases the risk of alzheimers and dementia: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/not-getting-enough-deep-sleep-may-increase-dementia-risk https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/not-getting-enough...

clumsysmurf 2y ago
Just a few weeks ago this appeared somewhere on HN https://www.sciencealert.com/study-finds-sleep-may-not-flush-toxins-from-the-brain-after-all https://www.sciencealert.com/study-finds-sleep-may-not-flush...
- SubiculumCode 2y ago
  Not an expert in the field, but from what I understand the idea is very contentious with sizeable camps on both sides, especially noticeable if you are talking to an Alzheimers scientist, or a immune system scientist.
  - burning_hamster 2y ago
    > sizeable camps on both sides There are dozens of us! Mostly because Nedergaard's lab(s) are like 50 people all by themselves. I always find it interesting what people's perception of the size of academic subfields is. For most topics in the biological sciences (i.e. excluding cancer, HIV, malaria, AD, and other "whales") you can fit everyone that has directly worked on that topic in the last 5 years in a medium-sized auditorium. And many people work on multiple topics!
- ashtami8 2y ago
  @clumsysmurf, nice catch! Could it be possible that the coffee lobby is behind this 'counter'-study?, since a relatively simple inference from the OP has catastrophic consequences for the coffee business: Deep sleep is necessary for the slow electrical waves that clear the brain of waste including amyloid proteins. (Excessive) coffee intake reduces the quality and quantity of deep sleep, thus leading to a build up of waste products including amyloid, resulting in cognitive declines such as Alzheimer's etc. Therefore, coffee intake (indirectly) causes Alzheimer's. Admitting that last part is suicidal for the coffee business.
  - dukeyukey 2y ago
    We have a _lot_ of studies and evidence that says coffee reduces overall mortality by quite a bit, and it holds for both caffeinated and decaf coffee. It seems like coffee specifically reduces the risk of Alzheimer's as well.
    - darthrupert 2y ago
      That result is almost certainly bullshit, at least for Alzheimer's. Or the effect is so minimal that it doesn't practically matter. Why? Because Finland is the country that consumes the most coffee per capita in the world. Finland also has the highest amount of Alzheimer patients per capita. Correlation is not causation, but based on this, it should rather be suspected that coffee causes Alzheimer's rather than helps with it.
      - sydbarrett74 2y ago
        Could Finland's high incidence of Alz also have to do with its high latitude and Finlanders' lack of Vitamin D?
  - ashtami8 2y ago
    @dukeyukey, from these '_lot_ of studies', if we remove those that are directly or indirectly funded by the coffee lobby, are we left with the empty set ∅ ?
    - dukeyukey 2y ago
      Do you think I would have posted that if what you say is true?
- gradientsrneat 2y ago
  Very interesting article! However, the reduction of clearance rate (30%) is not a lot. It is possible the brain produces even less toxins while asleep. And the article also acknowledges there may be an increase in "bulk flow of fluid." All that said, this study was done on mice, so it's hard to draw conclusions.
bamboozled 2y ago
I've read that exercise negates all of this...
- Tarsul 2y ago
  I've found out (the hard way) that chronic lack of sleep leads to not having enough energy for intense workouts... (walking is ok though)
  - HeckFeck 2y ago
    Failing lifts is strongly correlated with a bad night's sleep. Source: skimming various forums and personal experience et al, 2024.
    - djmips 2y ago
      I do not understand what 'failing lifts' is in this context?
      - pindab0ter 2y ago
        I can only assume it means failing to lift a weight in the context of gym exercise.
        kelipso 2y ago
        Basically failing to lift weights that you could lift say last week. There are other factors too of course like fatigue, food, etc. that can make you fail to lift the same weights.
      - yCombLinks 2y ago
        I know how much I am normally able to lift each exercise. So let's say 125 lbs shoulder press, I expect to be able to lift the weights 10 times the first set, 9 times the second, 8 the third set. If I can't lift the weights 10 times I failed early.
  - 2y ago

by j1mmie 2y ago

clumsysmurf 2y ago

Just a few weeks ago this appeared somewhere on HN https://www.sciencealert.com/study-finds-sleep-may-not-flush-toxins-from-the-brain-after-all https://www.sciencealert.com/study-finds-sleep-may-not-flush...

SubiculumCode 2y ago
Not an expert in the field, but from what I understand the idea is very contentious with sizeable camps on both sides, especially noticeable if you are talking to an Alzheimers scientist, or a immune system scientist.
- burning_hamster 2y ago
  > sizeable camps on both sides There are dozens of us! Mostly because Nedergaard's lab(s) are like 50 people all by themselves. I always find it interesting what people's perception of the size of academic subfields is. For most topics in the biological sciences (i.e. excluding cancer, HIV, malaria, AD, and other "whales") you can fit everyone that has directly worked on that topic in the last 5 years in a medium-sized auditorium. And many people work on multiple topics!
ashtami8 2y ago
@clumsysmurf, nice catch! Could it be possible that the coffee lobby is behind this 'counter'-study?, since a relatively simple inference from the OP has catastrophic consequences for the coffee business: Deep sleep is necessary for the slow electrical waves that clear the brain of waste including amyloid proteins. (Excessive) coffee intake reduces the quality and quantity of deep sleep, thus leading to a build up of waste products including amyloid, resulting in cognitive declines such as Alzheimer's etc. Therefore, coffee intake (indirectly) causes Alzheimer's. Admitting that last part is suicidal for the coffee business.
- dukeyukey 2y ago
  We have a _lot_ of studies and evidence that says coffee reduces overall mortality by quite a bit, and it holds for both caffeinated and decaf coffee. It seems like coffee specifically reduces the risk of Alzheimer's as well.
  - darthrupert 2y ago
    That result is almost certainly bullshit, at least for Alzheimer's. Or the effect is so minimal that it doesn't practically matter. Why? Because Finland is the country that consumes the most coffee per capita in the world. Finland also has the highest amount of Alzheimer patients per capita. Correlation is not causation, but based on this, it should rather be suspected that coffee causes Alzheimer's rather than helps with it.
    - sydbarrett74 2y ago
      Could Finland's high incidence of Alz also have to do with its high latitude and Finlanders' lack of Vitamin D?
- ashtami8 2y ago
  @dukeyukey, from these '_lot_ of studies', if we remove those that are directly or indirectly funded by the coffee lobby, are we left with the empty set ∅ ?
  - dukeyukey 2y ago
    Do you think I would have posted that if what you say is true?
gradientsrneat 2y ago
Very interesting article! However, the reduction of clearance rate (30%) is not a lot. It is possible the brain produces even less toxins while asleep. And the article also acknowledges there may be an increase in "bulk flow of fluid." All that said, this study was done on mice, so it's hard to draw conclusions.

bamboozled 2y ago

I've read that exercise negates all of this...

Tarsul 2y ago
I've found out (the hard way) that chronic lack of sleep leads to not having enough energy for intense workouts... (walking is ok though)
- HeckFeck 2y ago
  Failing lifts is strongly correlated with a bad night's sleep. Source: skimming various forums and personal experience et al, 2024.
  - djmips 2y ago
    I do not understand what 'failing lifts' is in this context?
    - pindab0ter 2y ago
      I can only assume it means failing to lift a weight in the context of gym exercise.
      - kelipso 2y ago
        Basically failing to lift weights that you could lift say last week. There are other factors too of course like fatigue, food, etc. that can make you fail to lift the same weights.
    - yCombLinks 2y ago
      I know how much I am normally able to lift each exercise. So let's say 125 lbs shoulder press, I expect to be able to lift the weights 10 times the first set, 9 times the second, 8 the third set. If I can't lift the weights 10 times I failed early.
- 2y ago