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Wow, big news. I'm mixed on this. One of the strengths of Rails was that it was the dominant Ruby web programming framework. This meant that virtually the enti

Wow, big news. I'm mixed on this. One of the strengths of Rails was that it was the dominant Ruby web programming framework. This meant that virtually the entire community was behind Rails when it came to web app development - unlike some other languages, which have several frameworks competing for the crown. But Merb has recently started to give Rails a run for its money. Fortunately, the learning curve between Merb and Rails is relatively small. So on the one hand, it's great that the Ruby community won't splinter between two competing frameworks. But on the other hand, Merb was really creative and innovative, and I'd hate to see that innovation slow down as it becomes the Establishment.

mechanical_fish 18y ago
Merb was really creative and innovative, and I'd hate to see that innovation slow down as it becomes the Establishment. All innovations either become Establishment or remain obscure. I'm perfectly happy to see Merb go Establishment. If it doesn't work out... it's not as if the project won't be forked again. Innovation won't stop. It will just have a different name and perhaps some different principals.
- jon_dahl 18y ago
  Innovation won't stop. It will just have a different name and perhaps some different principals. That's exactly my hope.
  - gry 18y ago
    If, heaven forbid, Merb's best doesn't make it to Rails and it falls fallow, I have a hunch Merb takes root again. There are too many SCM clones and forks for it to disappear. Granted, time and energy is lost. Yet along the way, there'll be another Merb. Sometimes a spoon is a better fork.
KevBurnsJr 18y ago
lol @ Rails being called "the Establishment"
jm4 18y ago
How can the Ruby community splinter between two competing web frameworks? The entire Ruby-using population does not need to agree on a web framework. There can be smaller communities around various projects and frameworks within the Ruby community. In fact, I would think that it would be vital to Ruby's advancement and evolution. You mention that Rails being the dominant web framework is a strength and in the same sentence remark about how with other languages there are multiple competing frameworks. How, exactly, does this negatively impact developers? On the flip side, how does a merger between Rails and Merb positively impact developers? Developers who don't like Rails had an alternative in Merb and vice versa. How is the elimination of a choice a good thing? The way I see it, competition here is only a good thing. Why would anyone want Rails to be the only option-- or even the de facto standard-- when it's been shown to be exactly the wrong tool for the job in several high profile scenarios? Don't get me wrong-- I'm not bashing Rails. I'm just saying it's a good thing to have a few more tools in the toolbox. When your only tool is a hammer everything starts looking like nails.
- chaostheory 18y ago
  the problem of too much choice: http://www.spring.org.uk/2007/09/barry-schwartz-on-why-too-much-choice.php http://www.spring.org.uk/2007/09/barry-schwartz-on-why-too-m...
  - jm4 18y ago
    That's a completely valid problem, but at best it's debatable whether it applies to Ruby web frameworks. There's not exactly a plethora of mature web frameworks available. Rails and Merb seemed to be the most firmly established frameworks with a few others like Sinatra, Camping and Ramaze sprouting up. I think the too much choice problem applies much more when you're installing a Linux distribution and you have to choose from 40 different text editors or IM clients. Who has the time or the inclination to evaluate each one?
- carbon8 18y ago
  Well, Rack is really changing a lot already with Ruby frameworks. Sinatra is becoming more popular for highly specialized apps, and now you can embed Sinatra and Camping apps into other Rack apps, which includes Rails edge apps. Basically what's happening is that everything in Ruby is already becoming more modular, shifting toward organized APIs, so this helps move in a direction where you can basically build a customized framework like legos out of a bunch of gems and specialized apps without spending an inordinate amount of time trying to patch things to work together.
petercooper 18y ago
That's alright, we have Sinatra for innovation now: http://sinatra.rubyforge.org/ http://sinatra.rubyforge.org/

mechanical_fish 18y ago

Merb was really creative and innovative, and I'd hate to see that innovation slow down as it becomes the Establishment. All innovations either become Establishment or remain obscure. I'm perfectly happy to see Merb go Establishment. If it doesn't work out... it's not as if the project won't be forked again. Innovation won't stop. It will just have a different name and perhaps some different principals.

jon_dahl 18y ago
Innovation won't stop. It will just have a different name and perhaps some different principals. That's exactly my hope.
- gry 18y ago
  If, heaven forbid, Merb's best doesn't make it to Rails and it falls fallow, I have a hunch Merb takes root again. There are too many SCM clones and forks for it to disappear. Granted, time and energy is lost. Yet along the way, there'll be another Merb. Sometimes a spoon is a better fork.

KevBurnsJr 18y ago

lol @ Rails being called "the Establishment"

jm4 18y ago

How can the Ruby community splinter between two competing web frameworks? The entire Ruby-using population does not need to agree on a web framework. There can be smaller communities around various projects and frameworks within the Ruby community. In fact, I would think that it would be vital to Ruby's advancement and evolution. You mention that Rails being the dominant web framework is a strength and in the same sentence remark about how with other languages there are multiple competing frameworks. How, exactly, does this negatively impact developers? On the flip side, how does a merger between Rails and Merb positively impact developers? Developers who don't like Rails had an alternative in Merb and vice versa. How is the elimination of a choice a good thing? The way I see it, competition here is only a good thing. Why would anyone want Rails to be the only option-- or even the de facto standard-- when it's been shown to be exactly the wrong tool for the job in several high profile scenarios? Don't get me wrong-- I'm not bashing Rails. I'm just saying it's a good thing to have a few more tools in the toolbox. When your only tool is a hammer everything starts looking like nails.

chaostheory 18y ago
the problem of too much choice: http://www.spring.org.uk/2007/09/barry-schwartz-on-why-too-much-choice.php http://www.spring.org.uk/2007/09/barry-schwartz-on-why-too-m...
- jm4 18y ago
  That's a completely valid problem, but at best it's debatable whether it applies to Ruby web frameworks. There's not exactly a plethora of mature web frameworks available. Rails and Merb seemed to be the most firmly established frameworks with a few others like Sinatra, Camping and Ramaze sprouting up. I think the too much choice problem applies much more when you're installing a Linux distribution and you have to choose from 40 different text editors or IM clients. Who has the time or the inclination to evaluate each one?
carbon8 18y ago
Well, Rack is really changing a lot already with Ruby frameworks. Sinatra is becoming more popular for highly specialized apps, and now you can embed Sinatra and Camping apps into other Rack apps, which includes Rails edge apps. Basically what's happening is that everything in Ruby is already becoming more modular, shifting toward organized APIs, so this helps move in a direction where you can basically build a customized framework like legos out of a bunch of gems and specialized apps without spending an inordinate amount of time trying to patch things to work together.

petercooper 18y ago

That's alright, we have Sinatra for innovation now: http://sinatra.rubyforge.org/ http://sinatra.rubyforge.org/