3 ms·

People don't realize what a big deal this is. It's a strong form of legalized bribery. It's game over for the USA. In other corrupt countries, no work gets done

People don't realize what a big deal this is. It's a strong form of legalized bribery. It's game over for the USA. In other corrupt countries, no work gets done by government workers until gratuities are paid at every step. It becomes a dog-eat-dog trustless existence where anything goes. Imagine buildings and bridges keep crashing because they were made poorly, nothing is functional, and it gets only worse from there.

office_drone 2y ago
[flagged]
red-iron-pine 2y ago
Finishing the job that citizens united started. This is how democracy dies. The Americans better start using those rights they seem to wank off about, cuz if they don't they're about to get sold to the highest bidders
- dc_ist 2y ago
  About to? We're beyond "about to".
  - paulryanrogers 2y ago
    Arguably before bribes were more hidden, and when brought to light they were more often procecuted or at last shamed folks out of office. See Abe Fortas
ein0p 2y ago
What do you mean “in other countries”? That’s exactly how it is here in the US as well, just slightly more indirectly, in the form of “campaign donations” and “do nothing” six figure “jobs” after the official’s term ends.
- OutOfHere 2y ago
  > in the form of “campaign donations” Campaign donations are limited to elected officials or to those standing in an election. Now it's anyone in government. Most government works are not elected, and now they could have free reign.
  - ein0p 2y ago
    There are all sorts of other forms of indirect (and at times direct) bribery practiced in the US. You wouldn’t get anyone competent to “serve the public” if their official salaries were their entire compensation. So your options are either incompetence or corruption, or, at times, both. The reason you’re not directly exposed to this is you aren’t making any requests of them. Eg for elected officials 100% of the time I write to them I receive a canned response that shows nobody has even read what I wrote. I strongly suspect this would work very differently if I made large campaign contributions
    - lores 2y ago
      The administration in many countries (northern Europe, say) is both competent and not corrupt. If the only way to get competence is bribes, you end up with neither competence nor a functioning society.
      - ein0p 2y ago
        It’s also rather poor. When was the last time you’ve seen a poor US politician? Frickin’ Bernie Sanders has three times as many houses as I do.
        rootusrootus 2y ago
        > Bernie Sanders has three times as many houses as I do. He has an estimated net worth of $3M. He is 82 years old and makes $174K a year. Even if he made substantially less than $174K (adjusted downward for inflation) before he became a representative in 1991, he can benefit from compound interest just like the rest of us. Hell, I have been investing for slightly less than 33 years myself and I have a substantially similar net worth, and for a good part my early career I definitely was not making the salary of a congressman. Hell, it hasn't even been all that many years since I started making more than a congressman made in 1992. It's more surprising that $3M is all he's got. If I keep working until I'm 82, I should be deep into 8 digits of net worth. God I love compound interest. I hope my kids are listening enough of the time when I talk about it.
throw__away7391 2y ago
I am convinced that having low corruption is more important to a country than say democracy. I have travelled to many countries and noticed the same pattern repeated over and over again. Every country has at least some district in the capital city with fancy restaurants and rooftop bars and luxury shopping. If you go to such a place in a rich country and ask people what they do you'll get many answers, you'll find people who do technical work in specialized industries, managers, business owners, etc. In poor countries it is always the same answer, everyone you will meet in these places works for the government.
- em-bee 2y ago
  you are not wrong simply because corruption interferes with democracy. iaw: you can't have democracy if you have corruption, so removing corruption is a prerequisite to enabling democracy.
  - throw__away7391 2y ago
    I mean I've visited democratic countries with a _lot_ of corruption and autocratic countries which appeared to have less. I guess you can get semantic with it, but my main point is that you always here about "democracy" and a number of other positive things from people advocating for human rights, but corruption doesn't get the same level of attention. I think it should. Corruption is a huge problem. One thing that I think escapes many is that in corrupt countries, it isn't like the clerk who issues permits decides one day to be corrupt and gets rich. People already know these jobs offer opportunities to make a lot of money and compete fiercely for them. This is a high status job. The people who get them are usually capable and motivated and would serve their economy much better in some other role. It acts like a sort of internal brain drain.

office_drone 2y ago

[flagged]

red-iron-pine 2y ago

Finishing the job that citizens united started. This is how democracy dies. The Americans better start using those rights they seem to wank off about, cuz if they don't they're about to get sold to the highest bidders

dc_ist 2y ago
About to? We're beyond "about to".
- paulryanrogers 2y ago
  Arguably before bribes were more hidden, and when brought to light they were more often procecuted or at last shamed folks out of office. See Abe Fortas

ein0p 2y ago

What do you mean “in other countries”? That’s exactly how it is here in the US as well, just slightly more indirectly, in the form of “campaign donations” and “do nothing” six figure “jobs” after the official’s term ends.

OutOfHere 2y ago
> in the form of “campaign donations” Campaign donations are limited to elected officials or to those standing in an election. Now it's anyone in government. Most government works are not elected, and now they could have free reign.
- ein0p 2y ago
  There are all sorts of other forms of indirect (and at times direct) bribery practiced in the US. You wouldn’t get anyone competent to “serve the public” if their official salaries were their entire compensation. So your options are either incompetence or corruption, or, at times, both. The reason you’re not directly exposed to this is you aren’t making any requests of them. Eg for elected officials 100% of the time I write to them I receive a canned response that shows nobody has even read what I wrote. I strongly suspect this would work very differently if I made large campaign contributions
  - lores 2y ago
    The administration in many countries (northern Europe, say) is both competent and not corrupt. If the only way to get competence is bribes, you end up with neither competence nor a functioning society.
    - ein0p 2y ago
      It’s also rather poor. When was the last time you’ve seen a poor US politician? Frickin’ Bernie Sanders has three times as many houses as I do.
      - rootusrootus 2y ago
        > Bernie Sanders has three times as many houses as I do. He has an estimated net worth of $3M. He is 82 years old and makes $174K a year. Even if he made substantially less than $174K (adjusted downward for inflation) before he became a representative in 1991, he can benefit from compound interest just like the rest of us. Hell, I have been investing for slightly less than 33 years myself and I have a substantially similar net worth, and for a good part my early career I definitely was not making the salary of a congressman. Hell, it hasn't even been all that many years since I started making more than a congressman made in 1992. It's more surprising that $3M is all he's got. If I keep working until I'm 82, I should be deep into 8 digits of net worth. God I love compound interest. I hope my kids are listening enough of the time when I talk about it.

throw__away7391 2y ago

I am convinced that having low corruption is more important to a country than say democracy. I have travelled to many countries and noticed the same pattern repeated over and over again. Every country has at least some district in the capital city with fancy restaurants and rooftop bars and luxury shopping. If you go to such a place in a rich country and ask people what they do you'll get many answers, you'll find people who do technical work in specialized industries, managers, business owners, etc. In poor countries it is always the same answer, everyone you will meet in these places works for the government.

em-bee 2y ago
you are not wrong simply because corruption interferes with democracy. iaw: you can't have democracy if you have corruption, so removing corruption is a prerequisite to enabling democracy.
- throw__away7391 2y ago
  I mean I've visited democratic countries with a _lot_ of corruption and autocratic countries which appeared to have less. I guess you can get semantic with it, but my main point is that you always here about "democracy" and a number of other positive things from people advocating for human rights, but corruption doesn't get the same level of attention. I think it should. Corruption is a huge problem. One thing that I think escapes many is that in corrupt countries, it isn't like the clerk who issues permits decides one day to be corrupt and gets rich. People already know these jobs offer opportunities to make a lot of money and compete fiercely for them. This is a high status job. The people who get them are usually capable and motivated and would serve their economy much better in some other role. It acts like a sort of internal brain drain.