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If Apple would work with Valve to support whatever they need for a Proton equivalent layer for Mac, that would be awesome. The current state is that a large ch

If Apple would work with Valve to support whatever they need for a Proton equivalent layer for Mac, that would be awesome. The current state is that a large chunk of the few steam games that have been ported to Mac were 32-bit and refuse to even run on newer macOS version.

runjake 2y ago
Apple has the Game Porting Toolkit, but adoption has been lackluster. https://developer.apple.com/games/game-porting-toolkit/ https://developer.apple.com/games/game-porting-toolkit/ https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/7/23752164/apple-mac-gaming-game-porting-toolkit-windows-games-macos https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/7/23752164/apple-mac-gaming-...
- solardev 2y ago
  You don't have to wait for the game devs to adopt it, you can (try to) run any software using it: https://getwhisky.app/ https://getwhisky.app/ (free but poor support/compatibility) https://www.codeweavers.com/crossover https://www.codeweavers.com/crossover (paid app using similar technology, easier to use)
jillesvangurp 2y ago
They sort of have done some work except it's not aimed at enabling Valve to run a competing app store for games on macs for obvious reasons. It's called game porting toolkit. Allows game developers to easily port windows games to run on macs. Of course this is not about enabling Steam but about bypassing steam. But I'm guessing it's doing a lot of the same kinds of things as proton technically. Possibly even building on some of the same OSS components. I don't know enough about this to say definitively. The good news with 32 bit is that a lot of the 32 bit games are pretty old at this point and should run well enough in an emulator given good enough GPU emulation. So you might get something going with linux and proton running in an emulator. But of course, Valve has an opportunity here as well. And they should step up. There's a lot of good stuff happening in Asahi linux that they could borrow probably.
- archagon 2y ago
  Porting is not enough. Valve succeeded because they made their layer “just work” for 90% of games by default.
- stetrain 2y ago
  Apple could do it without Valve. They could actually make a big effort to bring tons of game devs into their store with a system that doesn't require them to modify their games to run on Mac or iOS. But they haven't, and I'm not sure they care enough to actually follow through on such a project, both technologically and in making and maintaining all of those publisher relationships.
  - jmpman 2y ago
    I have thousands of dollars in my Steam library. Don’t want to purchase it again in order to get rid of my windows system. Steam has a ton of other benefits. I can literally stop playing computer games for years, and when I come back to Steam, I just click install and everything works again exactly as it did before. Compare that to almost every iOS game I’ve ever bought for $1 or $2 years ago. Now all of those have become loaded with ads or paywalls to unlock content. Angry Birds I’m looking at you. Garbage.
    - stetrain 2y ago
      Right, which is why I'd rather Apple accept that their heart isn't really in the PC games business and work to enable Valve or others to handle that experience. My point was Apple could do it themselves, but they haven't, they almost certainly won't, and even if they did I don't think their heart is really in it to do it properly.
LightHugger 2y ago
The only people willing to support Mac stuff is people who use Macs, because apple mandates that you do so. No cross compiling allowed. Just use linux.
- stetrain 2y ago
  In what way is cross compiling not allowed for Mac OS? Proton doesn't require devs to cross compile either. The point is it runs unmodified Windows games on Linux. Apple could be having the same benefits that the Steam Deck is currently seeing if they actually bothered to care.
  - LightHugger 2y ago
    Apple's position is that if you want to develop or compile for apple devices you have to do it from apple devices. Apple says cross compiling is not allowed for MacOS. It's a pain in the ass for people doing user space software development and as a result apple ensures you get worse software and worse compatability layers. That's the apple premium (TM, cha-ching) you pay for. Maybe find a better ecosystem to get locked into.
    - stetrain 2y ago
      I think you're talking about the certificate signing stuff which isn't technically the same as cross-compiling. But anyway, the whole topic I brought up is Valve's Proton layer which doesn't require cross-compiling the game to Mac OS. That's the whole reason I think that solution would be the best way to get decent gaming support on the Mac. Cross-compiling literally wouldn't have anything to do with it.
ajdude 2y ago
Counterstrike Go worked fine on my macbook until Valve released Counterstrike 2, which automatically upgraded everyone's version of Go to 2. Then it no longer worked on MacOS. Valve responded by just refunding anyone who used Go on a mac in the last x months, it was pretty frustrating.

runjake 2y ago

Apple has the Game Porting Toolkit, but adoption has been lackluster. https://developer.apple.com/games/game-porting-toolkit/ https://developer.apple.com/games/game-porting-toolkit/ https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/7/23752164/apple-mac-gaming-game-porting-toolkit-windows-games-macos https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/7/23752164/apple-mac-gaming-...

solardev 2y ago
You don't have to wait for the game devs to adopt it, you can (try to) run any software using it: https://getwhisky.app/ https://getwhisky.app/ (free but poor support/compatibility) https://www.codeweavers.com/crossover https://www.codeweavers.com/crossover (paid app using similar technology, easier to use)

jillesvangurp 2y ago

They sort of have done some work except it's not aimed at enabling Valve to run a competing app store for games on macs for obvious reasons. It's called game porting toolkit. Allows game developers to easily port windows games to run on macs. Of course this is not about enabling Steam but about bypassing steam. But I'm guessing it's doing a lot of the same kinds of things as proton technically. Possibly even building on some of the same OSS components. I don't know enough about this to say definitively. The good news with 32 bit is that a lot of the 32 bit games are pretty old at this point and should run well enough in an emulator given good enough GPU emulation. So you might get something going with linux and proton running in an emulator. But of course, Valve has an opportunity here as well. And they should step up. There's a lot of good stuff happening in Asahi linux that they could borrow probably.

archagon 2y ago
Porting is not enough. Valve succeeded because they made their layer “just work” for 90% of games by default.
stetrain 2y ago
Apple could do it without Valve. They could actually make a big effort to bring tons of game devs into their store with a system that doesn't require them to modify their games to run on Mac or iOS. But they haven't, and I'm not sure they care enough to actually follow through on such a project, both technologically and in making and maintaining all of those publisher relationships.
- jmpman 2y ago
  I have thousands of dollars in my Steam library. Don’t want to purchase it again in order to get rid of my windows system. Steam has a ton of other benefits. I can literally stop playing computer games for years, and when I come back to Steam, I just click install and everything works again exactly as it did before. Compare that to almost every iOS game I’ve ever bought for $1 or $2 years ago. Now all of those have become loaded with ads or paywalls to unlock content. Angry Birds I’m looking at you. Garbage.
  - stetrain 2y ago
    Right, which is why I'd rather Apple accept that their heart isn't really in the PC games business and work to enable Valve or others to handle that experience. My point was Apple could do it themselves, but they haven't, they almost certainly won't, and even if they did I don't think their heart is really in it to do it properly.

LightHugger 2y ago

The only people willing to support Mac stuff is people who use Macs, because apple mandates that you do so. No cross compiling allowed. Just use linux.

stetrain 2y ago
In what way is cross compiling not allowed for Mac OS? Proton doesn't require devs to cross compile either. The point is it runs unmodified Windows games on Linux. Apple could be having the same benefits that the Steam Deck is currently seeing if they actually bothered to care.
- LightHugger 2y ago
  Apple's position is that if you want to develop or compile for apple devices you have to do it from apple devices. Apple says cross compiling is not allowed for MacOS. It's a pain in the ass for people doing user space software development and as a result apple ensures you get worse software and worse compatability layers. That's the apple premium (TM, cha-ching) you pay for. Maybe find a better ecosystem to get locked into.
  - stetrain 2y ago
    I think you're talking about the certificate signing stuff which isn't technically the same as cross-compiling. But anyway, the whole topic I brought up is Valve's Proton layer which doesn't require cross-compiling the game to Mac OS. That's the whole reason I think that solution would be the best way to get decent gaming support on the Mac. Cross-compiling literally wouldn't have anything to do with it.

ajdude 2y ago

Counterstrike Go worked fine on my macbook until Valve released Counterstrike 2, which automatically upgraded everyone's version of Go to 2. Then it no longer worked on MacOS. Valve responded by just refunding anyone who used Go on a mac in the last x months, it was pretty frustrating.