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It’s funny I wonder if MS do start to properly support Arm, it might have the opposite effect they want by forcing games makers to make arm versions, which can

It’s funny I wonder if MS do start to properly support Arm, it might have the opposite effect they want by forcing games makers to make arm versions, which can then be easily ported to the Mac…

andrewmcwatters 2y ago
We had the same phenomenon with x86-64 Mac OS X and macOS, but it didn't actually help. Their hardware was then, and still is chronically underpowered for current generation games. They build beautiful, but really slow hardware for their price point. They eventually deprecated OpenGL, and their then and now implementation is implemented as a wrapper around Metal. As a result, underlying OpenGL structures don't exist, and so you couldn't actually debug those games on Apple hardware. You had to resolve it on Windows PCs. Apple will never be serious about gaming, so it's just not ever worth the time.
RodgerTheGreat 2y ago
The challenges of porting games from Windows to MacOS have very little to do with processor architecture, and everything to do with system APIs. Valve's work with Proton seems like a much more plausible path toward unseating the dominance of Windows gaming, with the ironic consequence of solidifying the Windows APIs as a de-facto portable standard.
- gjsman-1000 2y ago
  As people on forums are already lamenting, the most stable API for building Linux games, is Windows. In my mind; that is completely true and a serious indictment of the immaturity of Linux userspace.
  - rmgk 2y ago
    Does this not seem to rather imply that using the proton/windows APIs works well and is a good solution with many advantages? Is the large portion of windows/mac/linux productivity software that targets chromium/electron an indictment of the immaturity of windows/mac/linux?
afavour 2y ago
Nah, by that logic we would have seen that happen when Apple transitioned to Intel processors all those years ago. Never happened.

It’s funny I wonder if MS do start to properly support Arm, it might have the opposite effect they want by forcing games makers to make arm versions, which can then be easily ported to the Mac…

andrewmcwatters 2y ago

We had the same phenomenon with x86-64 Mac OS X and macOS, but it didn't actually help. Their hardware was then, and still is chronically underpowered for current generation games. They build beautiful, but really slow hardware for their price point. They eventually deprecated OpenGL, and their then and now implementation is implemented as a wrapper around Metal. As a result, underlying OpenGL structures don't exist, and so you couldn't actually debug those games on Apple hardware. You had to resolve it on Windows PCs. Apple will never be serious about gaming, so it's just not ever worth the time.

RodgerTheGreat 2y ago

The challenges of porting games from Windows to MacOS have very little to do with processor architecture, and everything to do with system APIs. Valve's work with Proton seems like a much more plausible path toward unseating the dominance of Windows gaming, with the ironic consequence of solidifying the Windows APIs as a de-facto portable standard.

gjsman-1000 2y ago
As people on forums are already lamenting, the most stable API for building Linux games, is Windows. In my mind; that is completely true and a serious indictment of the immaturity of Linux userspace.
- rmgk 2y ago
  Does this not seem to rather imply that using the proton/windows APIs works well and is a good solution with many advantages? Is the large portion of windows/mac/linux productivity software that targets chromium/electron an indictment of the immaturity of windows/mac/linux?

afavour 2y ago

Nah, by that logic we would have seen that happen when Apple transitioned to Intel processors all those years ago. Never happened.