5 ms·

I agree it makes no sense. Nothing about being transgender looks remotely enjoyable or trendy. Hard to imagine someone would just go along with it for fun. T

I agree it makes no sense. Nothing about being transgender looks remotely enjoyable or trendy. Hard to imagine someone would just go along with it for fun. The only thing I am skeptical of is those who are looking to increasingly subdivide gender identities into finer and finer niches, but in a way that nevertheless has no impact on their lives whatsoever. That's a whole lot of distinctions without differences to me, but that does not apply with transgenderism.

Izkata 2y ago
> Nothing about being transgender looks remotely enjoyable or trendy. Hard to imagine someone would just go along with it for fun. This just sounds like you haven't encountered what they're referring to. For an introduction, check out some of the definitions on here: https://nonbinary.wiki/wiki/List_of_nonbinary_identities https://nonbinary.wiki/wiki/List_of_nonbinary_identities (and this list isn't anywhere close to compete compared to some I've seen in the past, just the easiest to find with a quick search) Many of these also come with special pronouns you're supposed to use instead of him/her, to the point where even the nonspecific "they" is considered offensive. It is absolutely a fad thing among the left in the US.
- spencerflem 2y ago
  Being totally earnest- I have friends who are trans, they are not doing it to hop on a trend or as a lark. Like pundits often say, it often comes with difficult medical procedures or at the very least a lot of social problems. And unlike pundits usually say, getting medication is extremely difficult and degrading and can take years. And for all the ones I know, none of them have regretted it, and if anything say they wished they could have transitioned sooner. I can't say I get what it feels like to be living as the wrong gender but if its worth putting up with as much as they do to change its gotta be bad. To your point - Yes there are people who will get offended at the wrong "they" because they'd prefer other neopronouns, but every person I know who uses those are very forgiving as long as it seems like you're not actively trying to misgender them. Mistakes happen constantly and every reasonable person respects that. I'm sure you can find people on the internet with bad takes or being obnoxious or cringe about it but you can find that with anything. & Yes that list is super detailed and I'm willing to admit I find some of them kinda weird, but people are weird about a lot of things and to be honest why should this be something to care about in particular. Even the stuff I truely cannot understand, like otherkin or plural, who is that hurting?
  - Izkata 2y ago
    > I have friends who are trans, they are not doing it to hop on a trend or as a lark. Like pundits often say, it often comes with difficult medical procedures or at the very least a lot of social problems. Which confirms you're not talking about the same group as the other person and me. The derogatory term is "transtrender"; they're claiming the label "trans" for social clout and don't have any of the issues you're talking about because they don't have any body dysphoria and have no intention of actually transitioning. To quote one of my former co-workers who was like this, "everyone should be trans, it's fun".
    - spencerflem 2y ago
      I don't doubt there are some people like that BUT - 1. Given how difficult the medical side is (something the anti-trans people like to call out all the time as 'multilation'), I don't think we should be looking down on trans people who haven't done anything medically & 2. Even if this group does exist, what's the point of bringing it up, especially here in this thread? It reads as being opposed to trans rights altogether because 'they're all faking it for clout' which just isn't true at all. && 3. Even for those you'd call 'transtrenders', is it really so bad to want to dress differently and get a new name? It's not that hard to accommodate and doesn't hurt anyone.
      - greenbadger 2y ago
        > is it really so bad to want to dress differently and get a new name? It's not that hard to accommodate and doesn't hurt anyone. If it was just about dressing differently and changing one's name, almost no-one would care. The main problem that has drawn such attention to this topic in the past few years is that of males demanding and being granted access to female spaces, on the basis of their self-declared "gender identity". This has harmed women and girls. In prisons, female prisoners being sexually assaulted, raped, impregnated by male inmates transferred to the women's prisons. In sports, female athletes being pushed out of their own competitions by males, and for contact sports, serious injuries from these males. Women and girls being indecently exposed to by males who've been allowed into locker rooms, changing rooms, nude spas, and similar places of undress. Basically, male desires are being given more importance than the needs of women and girls. And feminists who speak out on this get harassed, threatened, assaulted by angry males who can't bear to be told "no". The other hugely controversial issue is the provision of "gender affirming care" to children. Breast removal for girls who want to be boys, some as young as 12. Castration and penis surgery for boys who want to be girls, the youngest recorded being 16 years old. The harms from puberty blocking drugs. With an increasing number of detransitioners now speaking up against all this too. People don't just hold "anti-trans" views for no reason. It's because the ideology behind it has such harmful effects on women and children when it's implemented in the real world.

Izkata 2y ago

> Nothing about being transgender looks remotely enjoyable or trendy. Hard to imagine someone would just go along with it for fun. This just sounds like you haven't encountered what they're referring to. For an introduction, check out some of the definitions on here: https://nonbinary.wiki/wiki/List_of_nonbinary_identities https://nonbinary.wiki/wiki/List_of_nonbinary_identities (and this list isn't anywhere close to compete compared to some I've seen in the past, just the easiest to find with a quick search) Many of these also come with special pronouns you're supposed to use instead of him/her, to the point where even the nonspecific "they" is considered offensive. It is absolutely a fad thing among the left in the US.

spencerflem 2y ago
Being totally earnest- I have friends who are trans, they are not doing it to hop on a trend or as a lark. Like pundits often say, it often comes with difficult medical procedures or at the very least a lot of social problems. And unlike pundits usually say, getting medication is extremely difficult and degrading and can take years. And for all the ones I know, none of them have regretted it, and if anything say they wished they could have transitioned sooner. I can't say I get what it feels like to be living as the wrong gender but if its worth putting up with as much as they do to change its gotta be bad. To your point - Yes there are people who will get offended at the wrong "they" because they'd prefer other neopronouns, but every person I know who uses those are very forgiving as long as it seems like you're not actively trying to misgender them. Mistakes happen constantly and every reasonable person respects that. I'm sure you can find people on the internet with bad takes or being obnoxious or cringe about it but you can find that with anything. & Yes that list is super detailed and I'm willing to admit I find some of them kinda weird, but people are weird about a lot of things and to be honest why should this be something to care about in particular. Even the stuff I truely cannot understand, like otherkin or plural, who is that hurting?
- Izkata 2y ago
  > I have friends who are trans, they are not doing it to hop on a trend or as a lark. Like pundits often say, it often comes with difficult medical procedures or at the very least a lot of social problems. Which confirms you're not talking about the same group as the other person and me. The derogatory term is "transtrender"; they're claiming the label "trans" for social clout and don't have any of the issues you're talking about because they don't have any body dysphoria and have no intention of actually transitioning. To quote one of my former co-workers who was like this, "everyone should be trans, it's fun".
  - spencerflem 2y ago
    I don't doubt there are some people like that BUT - 1. Given how difficult the medical side is (something the anti-trans people like to call out all the time as 'multilation'), I don't think we should be looking down on trans people who haven't done anything medically & 2. Even if this group does exist, what's the point of bringing it up, especially here in this thread? It reads as being opposed to trans rights altogether because 'they're all faking it for clout' which just isn't true at all. && 3. Even for those you'd call 'transtrenders', is it really so bad to want to dress differently and get a new name? It's not that hard to accommodate and doesn't hurt anyone.
    - greenbadger 2y ago
      > is it really so bad to want to dress differently and get a new name? It's not that hard to accommodate and doesn't hurt anyone. If it was just about dressing differently and changing one's name, almost no-one would care. The main problem that has drawn such attention to this topic in the past few years is that of males demanding and being granted access to female spaces, on the basis of their self-declared "gender identity". This has harmed women and girls. In prisons, female prisoners being sexually assaulted, raped, impregnated by male inmates transferred to the women's prisons. In sports, female athletes being pushed out of their own competitions by males, and for contact sports, serious injuries from these males. Women and girls being indecently exposed to by males who've been allowed into locker rooms, changing rooms, nude spas, and similar places of undress. Basically, male desires are being given more importance than the needs of women and girls. And feminists who speak out on this get harassed, threatened, assaulted by angry males who can't bear to be told "no". The other hugely controversial issue is the provision of "gender affirming care" to children. Breast removal for girls who want to be boys, some as young as 12. Castration and penis surgery for boys who want to be girls, the youngest recorded being 16 years old. The harms from puberty blocking drugs. With an increasing number of detransitioners now speaking up against all this too. People don't just hold "anti-trans" views for no reason. It's because the ideology behind it has such harmful effects on women and children when it's implemented in the real world.