6 ms·

Podman Desktop 1.11: Light mode, Kubernetes features, macOS improvements

108 points by twelvenmonkeys 2y ago

xnorswap 2y ago
Used to be that people would wait ages for applications to get a "Dark mode", I find it funny how now we have to wait for "light mode" instead. Even so, good to see that arriving. I've been experimenting recently and I've found podman very useful compared to my previous experiences trying to do containery stuff. ( Admittedly a very long time ago now which burned me and put me off trying again for a long time. )
- kenmacd 2y ago
  Like wayland, podman was one of those things that took a lot of "I'll give it another shot? Nope, not ready" before I could switch. Lately the only real incompatibility I run in to with podman is that the handling of `RUN --mount=type=secret` in a Containerfile/Dockerfile is a bit broken (https://github.com/containers/buildah/issues/5282 https://github.com/containers/buildah/issues/5282).
- outcoldman 2y ago
  Lol, I could not even guess that the "light mode" was the opposite of dark theme, not the term for being a "light" as opposed to "heavy". So I was so surprised to see only the description "that light mode is available now, and you can turn it on". What is light mode? Not a "mode", it is a "theme".
  - diego_sandoval 2y ago
    The CLI is the "light mode".
- ndriscoll 2y ago
  Pretty much every program I interact with on Linux simply respects the system theme. I don't understand why light or dark "mode" for individual programs is even a thing.
betaby 2y ago
Podman Destop is surprisingly bad on MacOS. It has a kind of proxy-like/userspace network driver. That means your tcp connection shown in a host system through `netstat`. ICPM is not implemented and always returns success. Try running `ping 66.0.0.0` or any other non-existing IP from the container and see. At that moment I'll continue using, well, podman in a Linux VM running UTM.
- chrisldgk 2y ago
  If you haven’t tried it yet, I can recommend OrbStack[1] for container things on macOS. I don’t use it for anything more than spinning up dev DBs locally, but I know it supports Kubernetes in some form or another. [1] https://orbstack.dev https://orbstack.dev
  - gbalduzzi 2y ago
    I never used podman desktop but I LOVE OrbStack. Compared to docker desktop it's night and day, it is so much more performant and I never had an issue with it, totally recommend.
  - wiseowise 2y ago
    https://docs.orbstack.dev/faq#open-source https://docs.orbstack.dev/faq#open-source Into the trash it goes.
    - lmz 2y ago
      Along with the OS it runs on? Or is it just App developers that you don't allow to make money?
      - phone8675309 2y ago
        How pure does someone need to be before you leave them alone?
        lmz 2y ago
PufPufPuf 2y ago
I'm a fan of Rancher Desktop -- it has everything integrated and working out of the box, it can even provide the CLI tools like docker, kubectl or helm for you. On the other hand, in Podman Desktop, you can't even use an image from Podman Desktop docker in Podman Desktop kubernetes without extra steps. I'd recommend it only if you want Podman specifically. If you just want to run docker and/or kubernetes, I'd go with Rancher Desktop.
- hedora 2y ago
  If you want something more general purpose, Canonical Multipass has a good sample docker setup. Annoyingly, This is the only Canonical product I can recommend at this point. I use it with MacOS. I assume WSL is a better choice for Windows laptops, and there’s no reason to add a VM to get docker on Linux. https://multipass.run/docs/docker-how-to https://multipass.run/docs/docker-how-to
  - 5kg 2y ago
    I liked Multipass until I ran into storage corruption issues like many others [1][2] and broke all my VMs. On MacOS, Multipass uses qemu in which the apple-hvf support isn't getting much updates after 2021 [3]. [1]: https://github.com/canonical/multipass/issues/3455 https://github.com/canonical/multipass/issues/3455 [2]: https://github.com/canonical/multipass/issues/3235 https://github.com/canonical/multipass/issues/3235 [3]: https://github.com/qemu/qemu/commits/master/accel/hvf https://github.com/qemu/qemu/commits/master/accel/hvf
    - hedora 2y ago
      Thanks for the heads up.
      - gigatexal 2y ago
        Re: quemu and apple hvf that’s really sad news.
    - 5kg 2y ago
WD-42 2y ago
For basic dev container stuff, I switched to podman and I'll not go back to Docker. It works great and it being daemonless is just a cherry on top.
- gigatexal 2y ago
  Same. I have both limactl and podman setup but I think I’ll go all in on podman. On the Mac I was impressed how awesome podman is. Docker could have had this position but they need to make money and changed the license. More power to them. But the consequences are that I’ve moved.
- dymk 2y ago
  I want to love it, but it's surprisingly difficult to set up a recent version on Debian / Ubuntu. As far as I can tell, even the latest stable Debian / Ubuntu have Podman 3.x in their apt package repositories, which is missing a bunch of features (latest is 5.x).
  - throwaway74354 2y ago
    It's 4.9.3 for Ubuntu 24.04. Close enough, but it won't be updated in the forseeable future, so the gap will grow. There are https://build.opensuse.org/repositories/devel:kubic:libcontainers:unstable/podman https://build.opensuse.org/repositories/devel:kubic:libconta... repos, but it's what it says on the tin: unstable. And its usage is discouraged from the upstream bug reporting point of view. Works fine to keep up with development, but I wouldn't use that for user-facing workloads.
eknkc 2y ago
If you are on macOS, give OrbStack a shot. It works surprisingly well and fast.
- iknowstuff 2y ago
  +1. Love OrbStack. It’s embarrassing how bad docker is by comparison. If your company is paying for docker desktop, stop right now and switch to OrbStack.
- antihero 2y ago
  I'll give it a shot - how useful are the Pro features?
  - bdcravens 2y ago
    I subscribed, but only to be license-compliant. I've never used a pro feature, though I've looked at things like the debug mode. Honestly I just use the same set of command line tools I'd use with the official Docker client.
- k8sToGo 2y ago
  Does it keep things contained? Does it mess up or clutter the system? Currently I am using a Fusion VM to have something similar to WSL2 on Mac. Is this a better solution?
freedomben 2y ago
I'm remarkably impressed with Podman Desktop. I rarely use GUI tools as they rarely offer me more than what a CLI can, but Podman Desktop is becoming a sort of system dashboard or cockpit for me. It's getting quite feature rich. The k8s support is unexpected but appreciated, though I do wish it had better support for multiple kube config files. On the CLI I use aliases (sometimes env vars) to specify the kube config file, but in Podman desktop for some reason it won't use the env vars that it's supposed to. I built it such that there is no default cluster. It requires explicit specifying of the cluster. I did this intentionally so that commands never accidentally run against prod. With Podman Desktop, I can hack around the bug by symlinking ~/.kube/config to the one I want, but then my explicit specifying is gone and it's possible to accidentally be connected to prod when I think it's staging. My biggest feature request for Podman Desktop: support for multiple kube configs and let me label them with environment so it's immediately clear which env I'm talking to.
_cenw 2y ago
Initial experience on random (fresh-ish install) Windows laptop: Bad. Creates VM, and then can't find it. Now I can install Hyper-V management tools to get rid of it... Error: Command execution failed with exit code 125 Command execution failed with exit code 125 Error: vm "podman-machine-default" already exists on hypervisor
yeldarb 2y ago
Anyone know if there’s a way to get access to devices in a container on MacOS yet? (Eg USB webcam, MPS or CUDA accelerator)
- geerlingguy 2y ago
  I think Tart or one of the other more VM-like emulators was working on USB support at least; it's not a simple problem to solve, and I'm still not to the point I was with VirtualBox on Intel Macs in terms of being able to emulate any situation easily.
- rhatdan 2y ago
  Look for krunkit for GPU/Cuda Accelerator. Should be much better support in podman 5.2 out next month, I believe. You can use it now if you grab it from brew.
ethanpil 2y ago
With all of these great improvements in recent months i'd love to see an updated roadmap... https://github.com/containers/podman-desktop/wiki/Roadmap https://github.com/containers/podman-desktop/wiki/Roadmap
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

Used to be that people would wait ages for applications to get a "Dark mode", I find it funny how now we have to wait for "light mode" instead. Even so, good to see that arriving. I've been experimenting recently and I've found podman very useful compared to my previous experiences trying to do containery stuff. ( Admittedly a very long time ago now which burned me and put me off trying again for a long time. )

kenmacd 2y ago
Like wayland, podman was one of those things that took a lot of "I'll give it another shot? Nope, not ready" before I could switch. Lately the only real incompatibility I run in to with podman is that the handling of `RUN --mount=type=secret` in a Containerfile/Dockerfile is a bit broken (https://github.com/containers/buildah/issues/5282 https://github.com/containers/buildah/issues/5282).
outcoldman 2y ago
Lol, I could not even guess that the "light mode" was the opposite of dark theme, not the term for being a "light" as opposed to "heavy". So I was so surprised to see only the description "that light mode is available now, and you can turn it on". What is light mode? Not a "mode", it is a "theme".
- diego_sandoval 2y ago
  The CLI is the "light mode".
ndriscoll 2y ago
Pretty much every program I interact with on Linux simply respects the system theme. I don't understand why light or dark "mode" for individual programs is even a thing.

betaby 2y ago

Podman Destop is surprisingly bad on MacOS. It has a kind of proxy-like/userspace network driver. That means your tcp connection shown in a host system through `netstat`. ICPM is not implemented and always returns success. Try running `ping 66.0.0.0` or any other non-existing IP from the container and see. At that moment I'll continue using, well, podman in a Linux VM running UTM.

chrisldgk 2y ago
If you haven’t tried it yet, I can recommend OrbStack[1] for container things on macOS. I don’t use it for anything more than spinning up dev DBs locally, but I know it supports Kubernetes in some form or another. [1] https://orbstack.dev https://orbstack.dev
- gbalduzzi 2y ago
  I never used podman desktop but I LOVE OrbStack. Compared to docker desktop it's night and day, it is so much more performant and I never had an issue with it, totally recommend.
- wiseowise 2y ago
  https://docs.orbstack.dev/faq#open-source https://docs.orbstack.dev/faq#open-source Into the trash it goes.
  - lmz 2y ago
    Along with the OS it runs on? Or is it just App developers that you don't allow to make money?
    - phone8675309 2y ago
      How pure does someone need to be before you leave them alone?
      - lmz 2y ago

PufPufPuf 2y ago

I'm a fan of Rancher Desktop -- it has everything integrated and working out of the box, it can even provide the CLI tools like docker, kubectl or helm for you. On the other hand, in Podman Desktop, you can't even use an image from Podman Desktop docker in Podman Desktop kubernetes without extra steps. I'd recommend it only if you want Podman specifically. If you just want to run docker and/or kubernetes, I'd go with Rancher Desktop.

hedora 2y ago
If you want something more general purpose, Canonical Multipass has a good sample docker setup. Annoyingly, This is the only Canonical product I can recommend at this point. I use it with MacOS. I assume WSL is a better choice for Windows laptops, and there’s no reason to add a VM to get docker on Linux. https://multipass.run/docs/docker-how-to https://multipass.run/docs/docker-how-to
- 5kg 2y ago
  I liked Multipass until I ran into storage corruption issues like many others [1][2] and broke all my VMs. On MacOS, Multipass uses qemu in which the apple-hvf support isn't getting much updates after 2021 [3]. [1]: https://github.com/canonical/multipass/issues/3455 https://github.com/canonical/multipass/issues/3455 [2]: https://github.com/canonical/multipass/issues/3235 https://github.com/canonical/multipass/issues/3235 [3]: https://github.com/qemu/qemu/commits/master/accel/hvf https://github.com/qemu/qemu/commits/master/accel/hvf
  - hedora 2y ago
    Thanks for the heads up.
    - gigatexal 2y ago
      Re: quemu and apple hvf that’s really sad news.
  - 5kg 2y ago

WD-42 2y ago

For basic dev container stuff, I switched to podman and I'll not go back to Docker. It works great and it being daemonless is just a cherry on top.

gigatexal 2y ago
Same. I have both limactl and podman setup but I think I’ll go all in on podman. On the Mac I was impressed how awesome podman is. Docker could have had this position but they need to make money and changed the license. More power to them. But the consequences are that I’ve moved.
dymk 2y ago
I want to love it, but it's surprisingly difficult to set up a recent version on Debian / Ubuntu. As far as I can tell, even the latest stable Debian / Ubuntu have Podman 3.x in their apt package repositories, which is missing a bunch of features (latest is 5.x).
- throwaway74354 2y ago
  It's 4.9.3 for Ubuntu 24.04. Close enough, but it won't be updated in the forseeable future, so the gap will grow. There are https://build.opensuse.org/repositories/devel:kubic:libcontainers:unstable/podman https://build.opensuse.org/repositories/devel:kubic:libconta... repos, but it's what it says on the tin: unstable. And its usage is discouraged from the upstream bug reporting point of view. Works fine to keep up with development, but I wouldn't use that for user-facing workloads.

eknkc 2y ago

If you are on macOS, give OrbStack a shot. It works surprisingly well and fast.

iknowstuff 2y ago
+1. Love OrbStack. It’s embarrassing how bad docker is by comparison. If your company is paying for docker desktop, stop right now and switch to OrbStack.
antihero 2y ago
I'll give it a shot - how useful are the Pro features?
- bdcravens 2y ago
  I subscribed, but only to be license-compliant. I've never used a pro feature, though I've looked at things like the debug mode. Honestly I just use the same set of command line tools I'd use with the official Docker client.
k8sToGo 2y ago
Does it keep things contained? Does it mess up or clutter the system? Currently I am using a Fusion VM to have something similar to WSL2 on Mac. Is this a better solution?

freedomben 2y ago

I'm remarkably impressed with Podman Desktop. I rarely use GUI tools as they rarely offer me more than what a CLI can, but Podman Desktop is becoming a sort of system dashboard or cockpit for me. It's getting quite feature rich. The k8s support is unexpected but appreciated, though I do wish it had better support for multiple kube config files. On the CLI I use aliases (sometimes env vars) to specify the kube config file, but in Podman desktop for some reason it won't use the env vars that it's supposed to. I built it such that there is no default cluster. It requires explicit specifying of the cluster. I did this intentionally so that commands never accidentally run against prod. With Podman Desktop, I can hack around the bug by symlinking ~/.kube/config to the one I want, but then my explicit specifying is gone and it's possible to accidentally be connected to prod when I think it's staging. My biggest feature request for Podman Desktop: support for multiple kube configs and let me label them with environment so it's immediately clear which env I'm talking to.

_cenw 2y ago

Initial experience on random (fresh-ish install) Windows laptop: Bad. Creates VM, and then can't find it. Now I can install Hyper-V management tools to get rid of it... Error: Command execution failed with exit code 125 Command execution failed with exit code 125 Error: vm "podman-machine-default" already exists on hypervisor

yeldarb 2y ago

Anyone know if there’s a way to get access to devices in a container on MacOS yet? (Eg USB webcam, MPS or CUDA accelerator)

geerlingguy 2y ago
I think Tart or one of the other more VM-like emulators was working on USB support at least; it's not a simple problem to solve, and I'm still not to the point I was with VirtualBox on Intel Macs in terms of being able to emulate any situation easily.
rhatdan 2y ago
Look for krunkit for GPU/Cuda Accelerator. Should be much better support in podman 5.2 out next month, I believe. You can use it now if you grab it from brew.

ethanpil 2y ago

With all of these great improvements in recent months i'd love to see an updated roadmap... https://github.com/containers/podman-desktop/wiki/Roadmap https://github.com/containers/podman-desktop/wiki/Roadmap

deleted 2y ago

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