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I'm contemplating a switch from the minimalist shoes I adopted not long after Born to Run was released. Although I don't run as regularly or consistently as I

I'm contemplating a switch from the minimalist shoes I adopted not long after Born to Run was released. Although I don't run as regularly or consistently as I used to, I suspect there are gains to be had from wearing a squishy carbon-plate 8-10mm drop shoe. I'm on a stint of running at the moment, and wonder whether it's better to persist with my minimalist shoes until I (once again) reach a plateauing of gains, or do I switch now and benefit immediately?

dgimla20 2y ago
As a fellow runner, it really depends on where you are currently at to answer questions like this. I think of myself as a pretty good runner, but doubt these shoes would benefit me in a meaningful way at this point.
- randomcarbloke 2y ago
  I watched a video recently where a reasonably good runner switched from minimalist to vaporflys and it was transformative, I think you're underestimating just how significant the advances in performance shoes have been (as the article points out).
- mikestew 2y ago
  ...doubt these shoes would benefit me in a meaningful way at this point. You would probably be surprised. Can you race at 8:00/mile? Do you not heel strike like you're pounding fence posts? Then they'll probably work for you. I've run 50 mile races averaging around 9:00/mile in Vaporflys, and I still benefited greatly, if only because my legs weren't as trashed as they might have been in other shoes.
- jurassicfoxy 2y ago
  I can assure you that many super shoes will make you noticeably faster. Try them on in the store, you'll know right away. That being said, some of them (Nike's especially) are really hard to run in. Almost zero heel support, and so you do have to be quite fast to make some of them work. I have run in Endorphin Pro 3's and they are super super stable. I've work them for very slow ultras as well as fast workouts: excellent shoes all around.
chis 2y ago
You should switch immediately. The underrated piece is how much friendlier squishy shoes are on your joints and muscles. I have pretty good form and modern shoes still decrease my recovery time by like 1/3 compared to minimal ones.
- randomcarbloke 2y ago
  noted, thank you, I'll heed your advice.
- mikestew 2y ago
  The next day, after the first marathon I'd run in Vaporflys, I said to my wife, "I don't think I ran hard enough." Oh, I ran hard enough, but super shoes really save the legs, such that you won't feel as beat up the next day. And they do make me faster as an added benefit. :-)
mikestew 2y ago
Switch now, use them for your hard workouts (intervals, tempo, and the like), and racing. Don't use them for your plodding recovery runs, as they won't really work and you're wasting expensive shoes. Yes, you'll be faster, but as sibling says the real benefit is your legs don't get as trashed on hard runs. They will last longer than advertised. yeah, I probably wouldn't race marathons in them much past 200 miles or so, but I've got some Vaporflys that I only use for workouts now, and they are approaching 400 mile, IIRC. I've done back-to-back comparisons with the worn pair and a practically new pair, and yes, they lose a fair bit of bounce after 200 miles. But they can still be used for workouts, and they still preserve the legs.
- randomcarbloke 2y ago
  great advice to make them last with the added benefit of forcing good technique by using my flat shoes for recovery/steady-state.
- fire_lake 2y ago
  If your legs don’t get “trashed” is it because you are training them less?
  - mikestew 2y ago
    That’s a solid question, but AFAIK it’s the cushion and energy return from that pricey foam that is the leg-saver. Training benefit remains the same for practical purposes.
    - fire_lake 2y ago
      My read on it is that it reduces the amount of engagement required by various muscles and particularly feet. It makes running a lower impact exercise, closer to cycling. This is great for training VO2 max but we mustn’t forget that one of great things about running is that it trains all sorts of small support muscles, particularly in feet and lower legs.
sn9 2y ago
There are so many other reliably low-hanging fruit for most runners that jumping to supershoes is unlikely to make nearly as much of a difference. Like you'll see much larger gains adding 10+ miles per week to your training volume. The supershoes mainly benefit those who've maxed out their training volume and ability to recover, and are training for professional competition instead of health or recreation. And strength training is still severely underutilized by most endurance-focused athletes. It also improves running economy while having a host of other benefits.
- randomcarbloke 2y ago
  this is categorically untrue, it would've been true ten/fifteen years ago perhaps, supershoes absolutely make a difference to both performance and recovery, moreso if you're used to the relatively demanding minimalist shoes. >Like you'll see much larger gains adding 10+ miles per week to your training volume. me personally? I won't as I row 35/40km a week.
  - sn9 2y ago
    I'm not familiar enough with rowing volume to comment on that. And I'm not sure how running shoe selection impacts rowing . . . . The overwhelming majority of runners are running less than 30 miles per week. Competitive amateurs might be doing 40-60. Most would see better than 4% improvements adding 10+ miles to their training volume.
    - randomcarbloke 2y ago
      if you want to run faster run further - yes, but the conditioning this implies includes aerobic, psychological, technical, etc as being holistically improved. if I add ten miles to my running it is purely mechanical conditioning, I'll see zero improvement in my physical strength, respiration, mental resilience...so I would expect very little added benefit...at least less than I'd probably see with more forgiving shoes.
      - sn9 2y ago
jasonpeacock 2y ago
It's all about running technique, not the shoes. If you switch to minimalist shoes, but continue with the same (wrong) technique then you'll have problems. Big, padded shoes are for a specific (wrong) technique. "Barefoot" running technique doesn't need fancy shoes.
- zardo 2y ago
  Big padded shoes are making the fastest long distance runners in the world faster.
- mikestew 2y ago
  It's all about running technique, not the shoes. Nike, et al., spent millions of dollars demonstrating that this statement is untrue. Big, padded shoes are for a specific (wrong) technique. Demonstrably untrue, as TFA discusses at length. TFA isn’t talking about the Hokas that your grandmother wears to the grocery, these are race shoes. You going to go tell Kipchoge that his “technique” is all wrong, and he needs to switch to Vibram Five Fingers?
- grugagag 2y ago
  Can you describe the technique? Or provide a link to it? Thanks
  - jasonpeacock 2y ago
    I learned from a book called "Chi Running", there's similar book if you search for "barefoot running". The book "Born to Run" is also educational about the natural running gait for humans, as we didn't wear special "performance" shoes for running until the 1960s.
jurassicfoxy 2y ago
Your minimalist shoes aren't going to be faster in a race, but they are still good for you. I think the way to go is to run in many pairs of shoes. Super shoes for some fast workouts and races, normal shoes for long runs and tempo work, minimalist shoes good to keep your feet strong, Achilles long, etc. Some of the fastest runners I know run in zero drop shoes, but they also run in carbon shoes. There's no value in limiting yourself.

dgimla20 2y ago

As a fellow runner, it really depends on where you are currently at to answer questions like this. I think of myself as a pretty good runner, but doubt these shoes would benefit me in a meaningful way at this point.

randomcarbloke 2y ago
I watched a video recently where a reasonably good runner switched from minimalist to vaporflys and it was transformative, I think you're underestimating just how significant the advances in performance shoes have been (as the article points out).
mikestew 2y ago
...doubt these shoes would benefit me in a meaningful way at this point. You would probably be surprised. Can you race at 8:00/mile? Do you not heel strike like you're pounding fence posts? Then they'll probably work for you. I've run 50 mile races averaging around 9:00/mile in Vaporflys, and I still benefited greatly, if only because my legs weren't as trashed as they might have been in other shoes.
jurassicfoxy 2y ago
I can assure you that many super shoes will make you noticeably faster. Try them on in the store, you'll know right away. That being said, some of them (Nike's especially) are really hard to run in. Almost zero heel support, and so you do have to be quite fast to make some of them work. I have run in Endorphin Pro 3's and they are super super stable. I've work them for very slow ultras as well as fast workouts: excellent shoes all around.

chis 2y ago

You should switch immediately. The underrated piece is how much friendlier squishy shoes are on your joints and muscles. I have pretty good form and modern shoes still decrease my recovery time by like 1/3 compared to minimal ones.

randomcarbloke 2y ago
noted, thank you, I'll heed your advice.
mikestew 2y ago
The next day, after the first marathon I'd run in Vaporflys, I said to my wife, "I don't think I ran hard enough." Oh, I ran hard enough, but super shoes really save the legs, such that you won't feel as beat up the next day. And they do make me faster as an added benefit. :-)

mikestew 2y ago

Switch now, use them for your hard workouts (intervals, tempo, and the like), and racing. Don't use them for your plodding recovery runs, as they won't really work and you're wasting expensive shoes. Yes, you'll be faster, but as sibling says the real benefit is your legs don't get as trashed on hard runs. They will last longer than advertised. yeah, I probably wouldn't race marathons in them much past 200 miles or so, but I've got some Vaporflys that I only use for workouts now, and they are approaching 400 mile, IIRC. I've done back-to-back comparisons with the worn pair and a practically new pair, and yes, they lose a fair bit of bounce after 200 miles. But they can still be used for workouts, and they still preserve the legs.

randomcarbloke 2y ago
great advice to make them last with the added benefit of forcing good technique by using my flat shoes for recovery/steady-state.
fire_lake 2y ago
If your legs don’t get “trashed” is it because you are training them less?
- mikestew 2y ago
  That’s a solid question, but AFAIK it’s the cushion and energy return from that pricey foam that is the leg-saver. Training benefit remains the same for practical purposes.
  - fire_lake 2y ago
    My read on it is that it reduces the amount of engagement required by various muscles and particularly feet. It makes running a lower impact exercise, closer to cycling. This is great for training VO2 max but we mustn’t forget that one of great things about running is that it trains all sorts of small support muscles, particularly in feet and lower legs.

sn9 2y ago

There are so many other reliably low-hanging fruit for most runners that jumping to supershoes is unlikely to make nearly as much of a difference. Like you'll see much larger gains adding 10+ miles per week to your training volume. The supershoes mainly benefit those who've maxed out their training volume and ability to recover, and are training for professional competition instead of health or recreation. And strength training is still severely underutilized by most endurance-focused athletes. It also improves running economy while having a host of other benefits.

randomcarbloke 2y ago
this is categorically untrue, it would've been true ten/fifteen years ago perhaps, supershoes absolutely make a difference to both performance and recovery, moreso if you're used to the relatively demanding minimalist shoes. >Like you'll see much larger gains adding 10+ miles per week to your training volume. me personally? I won't as I row 35/40km a week.
- sn9 2y ago
  I'm not familiar enough with rowing volume to comment on that. And I'm not sure how running shoe selection impacts rowing . . . . The overwhelming majority of runners are running less than 30 miles per week. Competitive amateurs might be doing 40-60. Most would see better than 4% improvements adding 10+ miles to their training volume.
  - randomcarbloke 2y ago
    if you want to run faster run further - yes, but the conditioning this implies includes aerobic, psychological, technical, etc as being holistically improved. if I add ten miles to my running it is purely mechanical conditioning, I'll see zero improvement in my physical strength, respiration, mental resilience...so I would expect very little added benefit...at least less than I'd probably see with more forgiving shoes.
    - sn9 2y ago

jasonpeacock 2y ago

It's all about running technique, not the shoes. If you switch to minimalist shoes, but continue with the same (wrong) technique then you'll have problems. Big, padded shoes are for a specific (wrong) technique. "Barefoot" running technique doesn't need fancy shoes.

zardo 2y ago
Big padded shoes are making the fastest long distance runners in the world faster.
mikestew 2y ago
It's all about running technique, not the shoes. Nike, et al., spent millions of dollars demonstrating that this statement is untrue. Big, padded shoes are for a specific (wrong) technique. Demonstrably untrue, as TFA discusses at length. TFA isn’t talking about the Hokas that your grandmother wears to the grocery, these are race shoes. You going to go tell Kipchoge that his “technique” is all wrong, and he needs to switch to Vibram Five Fingers?
grugagag 2y ago
Can you describe the technique? Or provide a link to it? Thanks
- jasonpeacock 2y ago
  I learned from a book called "Chi Running", there's similar book if you search for "barefoot running". The book "Born to Run" is also educational about the natural running gait for humans, as we didn't wear special "performance" shoes for running until the 1960s.

jurassicfoxy 2y ago

Your minimalist shoes aren't going to be faster in a race, but they are still good for you. I think the way to go is to run in many pairs of shoes. Super shoes for some fast workouts and races, normal shoes for long runs and tempo work, minimalist shoes good to keep your feet strong, Achilles long, etc. Some of the fastest runners I know run in zero drop shoes, but they also run in carbon shoes. There's no value in limiting yourself.