4 ms·

Many contractor orgs provide benefits during the contracting period and pay at least 1.5x salary before the employee comes aboard as a full employee. Also, as

Many contractor orgs provide benefits during the contracting period and pay at least 1.5x salary before the employee comes aboard as a full employee. Also, as so many others have stated on this site, many people just as talented or better than in silicon valley aren't looking for 500k+ a year because they don't live in a hyperinflated shithole, but that's another topic altogether. All I can say is salary is relative and nobody should let that go to their head. The economy in the USA, but especially on the west coast has never experienced inflation like we currently have and are in for a rude awakening soon.

busterarm 2y ago
My whole point is it's a worse deal at anything less than 3x pay. Three to six months of 1.5x pay just to have to look for a job again and you probably haven't done any meaningful work in the last three to six months? My brother used to contract-to-hire in the 90s-00s for banks and not even getting issued a laptop for the first few months of a contract happened nearly 100% of the time. Literally months of sitting around writing emails going "I can't do the work you're paying me for because you haven't issued me equipment yet" and that was routine. Or if it wasn't working equipment, it was company accounts/logins. I even did a year of this once with a hedge fund in the early 00s. Once and never again. Contractors don't get meaningful responsibilities and meaningful responsibilities are how I justify myself (and my price) to my next job. No thanks.
- sublinear 2y ago
  > Three to six months of 1.5x pay just to have to look for a job again and you probably haven't done any meaningful work in the last three to six months? Hard disagree. They're not really looking to extend full employment to people like you, but may from time to time. If you're really that good you have nothing to worry about. I'm speaking from experience working on both ends of the contract-to-hire process.
  - busterarm 2y ago
    If I'm really that good I have another contract lined up already and I'm out the door. The only way you're getting me back is with a fulltime offer after my next contract ends. Or you're buying me out. Might as well skip the games. I've been on both sides of it too and I would never hire that way looking for good, experienced people. My experience with people successful at work is that they're successful in other endeavors too such as their private life. Experience also tells me that most peoples' life partners are extremely intolerant of career uncertainty, unless as a couple they are both very young.
    - sublinear 2y ago
      > Experience also tells me that most peoples' life partners are extremely intolerant of career uncertainty, unless as a couple they are both very young. I can only laugh at this statement.
      - busterarm 2y ago
        You can but it's pretty naive. The effects of layoffs and non-fulltime employment on families have been well studied with all of the conclusions that one should expect. I know multiple guys with wildly successful side-hustles, years-long backlogs of clients and more than enough income to exceed their day jobs and their wives absolutely will not allow them to leave their fulltime jobs because they're fearful of the risks of self-employment. These are the kind of men that put their family as their first priority. If you're only in the business of hiring kids, maybe you're entitled to your perspective but that's not somewhere I'm looking to work.
        sublinear 2y ago
        I'm not hiring kids. This is the world we've come to. I understand your perspective, but have you considered that times have changed? Your most recent reference to this idea is over 20 years ago. The nuclear family, and especially wives aren't relevant anymore. This isn't even an about inflation. There's an entire cohort you're not looking at and they're about to eat your lunch and so is your wife :D
dumbo-octopus 2y ago
Once we reach this rude awakening, would you rather you had more money in the bank and prior salary to give hiring managers, or less?

busterarm 2y ago

My whole point is it's a worse deal at anything less than 3x pay. Three to six months of 1.5x pay just to have to look for a job again and you probably haven't done any meaningful work in the last three to six months? My brother used to contract-to-hire in the 90s-00s for banks and not even getting issued a laptop for the first few months of a contract happened nearly 100% of the time. Literally months of sitting around writing emails going "I can't do the work you're paying me for because you haven't issued me equipment yet" and that was routine. Or if it wasn't working equipment, it was company accounts/logins. I even did a year of this once with a hedge fund in the early 00s. Once and never again. Contractors don't get meaningful responsibilities and meaningful responsibilities are how I justify myself (and my price) to my next job. No thanks.

sublinear 2y ago
> Three to six months of 1.5x pay just to have to look for a job again and you probably haven't done any meaningful work in the last three to six months? Hard disagree. They're not really looking to extend full employment to people like you, but may from time to time. If you're really that good you have nothing to worry about. I'm speaking from experience working on both ends of the contract-to-hire process.
- busterarm 2y ago
  If I'm really that good I have another contract lined up already and I'm out the door. The only way you're getting me back is with a fulltime offer after my next contract ends. Or you're buying me out. Might as well skip the games. I've been on both sides of it too and I would never hire that way looking for good, experienced people. My experience with people successful at work is that they're successful in other endeavors too such as their private life. Experience also tells me that most peoples' life partners are extremely intolerant of career uncertainty, unless as a couple they are both very young.
  - sublinear 2y ago
    > Experience also tells me that most peoples' life partners are extremely intolerant of career uncertainty, unless as a couple they are both very young. I can only laugh at this statement.
    - busterarm 2y ago
      You can but it's pretty naive. The effects of layoffs and non-fulltime employment on families have been well studied with all of the conclusions that one should expect. I know multiple guys with wildly successful side-hustles, years-long backlogs of clients and more than enough income to exceed their day jobs and their wives absolutely will not allow them to leave their fulltime jobs because they're fearful of the risks of self-employment. These are the kind of men that put their family as their first priority. If you're only in the business of hiring kids, maybe you're entitled to your perspective but that's not somewhere I'm looking to work.
      - sublinear 2y ago
        I'm not hiring kids. This is the world we've come to. I understand your perspective, but have you considered that times have changed? Your most recent reference to this idea is over 20 years ago. The nuclear family, and especially wives aren't relevant anymore. This isn't even an about inflation. There's an entire cohort you're not looking at and they're about to eat your lunch and so is your wife :D

dumbo-octopus 2y ago

Once we reach this rude awakening, would you rather you had more money in the bank and prior salary to give hiring managers, or less?