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> Many Tesla owners have reported that they have to regularly disengage FSD because it's trying to do something dangerous or looks like it's headed for a crash.

> Many Tesla owners have reported that they have to regularly disengage FSD because it's trying to do something dangerous or looks like it's headed for a crash. With Tesla the responsibility is on the person in the driver's seat, so there is a (rightfully!) a bias for overreaction on the part of the driver. We will never know many of these disengagements were necessary. The only way to get a true comparison of data is to compare robotaxis with robotaxis.

TulliusCicero 2y ago
It's true that not all of them would be crashes, but many would be, because, well, the car was about to crash. The car isn't just joking around when it swerves towards some parked cars. > The only way to get a true comparison of data is to compare robotaxis with robotaxis. 100% agreed. And so far, Tesla hasn't taken the step of actually letting the cars be driverless.
- diebeforei485 2y ago
  Older versions of Tesla FSD tended to make steering adjustments that were short in duration, but at a higher turn angle. Human drivers in a similar situation would turn the wheel slightly but keep it turned for longer before returning to centerline. People saw the steering wheel turn and perceived it to be the system going haywire, or thought that "the car was about to crash" as you put it, and intervened. The newer NN based FSD acts more like what a human would do.
  - TulliusCicero 2y ago
    Yes, every year Tesla fans talk about how much it's improved, and every year it's still failing on basic driving tasks. And there's definitely cases where the Tesla in question just tries to run into parked cars or similar for no apparent reason, but Tesla fans always have some excuse about why that's irrelevant, especially if it's not on whatever the absolute latest version is. Then they accuse the people horrified at Teslas making basic errors and trying to crash of being "anti-Musk". The reality is that their progress has been slowly incremental and often mixed: https://insideevs.com/news/724479/tesla-fsd-12-4-1-real-world-test/ https://insideevs.com/news/724479/tesla-fsd-12-4-1-real-worl...
    - diebeforei485 2y ago
      I actually watched the entire video in the article. There were some private driveway situations where the uploader intervened to back out to go to a new destination (but Waymo drops you off half a block away and makes you walk instead of entering your driveway, so it's not possible to compare). And there were some situations where a human driver honked - this has happened to me in Waymo as well. There was one situation where the Tesla didn't seem sure if it could proceed, but Waymo in that scenario would ask a remote operator (this has happened to me in both Waymo and Cruise) and presumably Tesla robotaxi can also have remote operators. The only case where he actually disengaged was at a stop sign with a slip lane, and the car turned right at the stop sign instead of turning right using the slip lane. He went there again at the end of the video and the car used the slip lane. I don't see this as an unfixable problem, because clearly the car can use slip lanes to turn, it just needs to be taught to always prefer slip lanes when turning. So, your own video disproves what you're saying. It isn't failing at basic driving tasks. I think the mistake you're making is assuming that they will never be good enough. A lot of people said the same thing about Google/Waymo until they actually rode in one.

TulliusCicero 2y ago

It's true that not all of them would be crashes, but many would be, because, well, the car was about to crash. The car isn't just joking around when it swerves towards some parked cars. > The only way to get a true comparison of data is to compare robotaxis with robotaxis. 100% agreed. And so far, Tesla hasn't taken the step of actually letting the cars be driverless.

diebeforei485 2y ago
Older versions of Tesla FSD tended to make steering adjustments that were short in duration, but at a higher turn angle. Human drivers in a similar situation would turn the wheel slightly but keep it turned for longer before returning to centerline. People saw the steering wheel turn and perceived it to be the system going haywire, or thought that "the car was about to crash" as you put it, and intervened. The newer NN based FSD acts more like what a human would do.
- TulliusCicero 2y ago
  Yes, every year Tesla fans talk about how much it's improved, and every year it's still failing on basic driving tasks. And there's definitely cases where the Tesla in question just tries to run into parked cars or similar for no apparent reason, but Tesla fans always have some excuse about why that's irrelevant, especially if it's not on whatever the absolute latest version is. Then they accuse the people horrified at Teslas making basic errors and trying to crash of being "anti-Musk". The reality is that their progress has been slowly incremental and often mixed: https://insideevs.com/news/724479/tesla-fsd-12-4-1-real-world-test/ https://insideevs.com/news/724479/tesla-fsd-12-4-1-real-worl...
  - diebeforei485 2y ago
    I actually watched the entire video in the article. There were some private driveway situations where the uploader intervened to back out to go to a new destination (but Waymo drops you off half a block away and makes you walk instead of entering your driveway, so it's not possible to compare). And there were some situations where a human driver honked - this has happened to me in Waymo as well. There was one situation where the Tesla didn't seem sure if it could proceed, but Waymo in that scenario would ask a remote operator (this has happened to me in both Waymo and Cruise) and presumably Tesla robotaxi can also have remote operators. The only case where he actually disengaged was at a stop sign with a slip lane, and the car turned right at the stop sign instead of turning right using the slip lane. He went there again at the end of the video and the car used the slip lane. I don't see this as an unfixable problem, because clearly the car can use slip lanes to turn, it just needs to be taught to always prefer slip lanes when turning. So, your own video disproves what you're saying. It isn't failing at basic driving tasks. I think the mistake you're making is assuming that they will never be good enough. A lot of people said the same thing about Google/Waymo until they actually rode in one.