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Waymo does have safety drivers, they're just driving the vehicle remotely when it's in certain areas instead of being in the vehicle. So it isn't "full" self dr

Waymo does have safety drivers, they're just driving the vehicle remotely when it's in certain areas instead of being in the vehicle. So it isn't "full" self driving either. > Tesla, who use cameras only, have not demonstrated full self driving There are entire youtube channels with hours of continuous video showing Teslas driving around SF, but also other parts of California, with no human intervention.

kajecounterhack 2y ago
No, Waymo is not driving remotely. Remote operators can only answer simple questions. They're at the point of commercialization so it's all about unit economics. There's no point in driving remotely especially since it does not scale cost-wise. Waymo is geofenced, but within its geofence it requires zero human intervention. Tesla on the other hand is famous for mistaking the moon for a traffic light. Saying "Tesla has so many miles on YouTube" is hilarious because first of all there are channels with lots of Cruise & Waymo footage too, and more importantly it's not the # of miles that matters, but the # of non-trivial scenarios you can handle.
- diebeforei485 2y ago
  I don't see why Tesla can't handle those scenarios if they also use remote operators. I wouldn't be surprised if they do. Btw Waymo is nowhere near achieving unit economics. Their cars cost like 5 times what Teslas cost, and the sensors require a lot of upkeep and maintenance.
  - kajecounterhack 2y ago
    Who’s to say what unit economics they’ve achieved but I’d hazard to guess that their investors wouldn’t support expanding their fleet and service unless the unit economics are at least close to break even. Cost for sensors and overall BOM keeps going down as more suppliers enter the market.
the-rc 2y ago
Are you saying that there are times when a Waymo car's ability to respond to events is at the mercy of a random Internet connection? What happens if the safety driver is steering remotely, from another town, and there's packet loss for a couple of seconds in the middle of a curve?
- diebeforei485 2y ago
  In that case if the car isn't able to decide what to do, it stalls in the middle of the street. Happens all the time in SF. It's probably not accurate to say that the remote operator is "steering" though. It's more like pathfinding.
- ladon86 2y ago
  Again, they don’t drive or steer remotely. What sometimes happens is a multiple choice question is presented to the operator in an ambiguous situation: <photo of construction zone> Can I drive through here? [Yes] [No] When this is happening, the car is stopped and lets the passenger know that it’s reaching out for remote help to figure out what to do. For me this has happened two times across my 125 Waymo rides (571 miles) so far, and was resolved in under 20 seconds. Though I must say, 20 seconds feels like ages when you’re in the car and blocking traffic!
  - the-rc 2y ago
    I agree with you, I was just highlighting for the other poster how difficult/crazy/riskier remote driving would be.

kajecounterhack 2y ago

No, Waymo is not driving remotely. Remote operators can only answer simple questions. They're at the point of commercialization so it's all about unit economics. There's no point in driving remotely especially since it does not scale cost-wise. Waymo is geofenced, but within its geofence it requires zero human intervention. Tesla on the other hand is famous for mistaking the moon for a traffic light. Saying "Tesla has so many miles on YouTube" is hilarious because first of all there are channels with lots of Cruise & Waymo footage too, and more importantly it's not the # of miles that matters, but the # of non-trivial scenarios you can handle.

diebeforei485 2y ago
I don't see why Tesla can't handle those scenarios if they also use remote operators. I wouldn't be surprised if they do. Btw Waymo is nowhere near achieving unit economics. Their cars cost like 5 times what Teslas cost, and the sensors require a lot of upkeep and maintenance.
- kajecounterhack 2y ago
  Who’s to say what unit economics they’ve achieved but I’d hazard to guess that their investors wouldn’t support expanding their fleet and service unless the unit economics are at least close to break even. Cost for sensors and overall BOM keeps going down as more suppliers enter the market.

the-rc 2y ago

Are you saying that there are times when a Waymo car's ability to respond to events is at the mercy of a random Internet connection? What happens if the safety driver is steering remotely, from another town, and there's packet loss for a couple of seconds in the middle of a curve?

diebeforei485 2y ago
In that case if the car isn't able to decide what to do, it stalls in the middle of the street. Happens all the time in SF. It's probably not accurate to say that the remote operator is "steering" though. It's more like pathfinding.
ladon86 2y ago
Again, they don’t drive or steer remotely. What sometimes happens is a multiple choice question is presented to the operator in an ambiguous situation: <photo of construction zone> Can I drive through here? [Yes] [No] When this is happening, the car is stopped and lets the passenger know that it’s reaching out for remote help to figure out what to do. For me this has happened two times across my 125 Waymo rides (571 miles) so far, and was resolved in under 20 seconds. Though I must say, 20 seconds feels like ages when you’re in the car and blocking traffic!
- the-rc 2y ago
  I agree with you, I was just highlighting for the other poster how difficult/crazy/riskier remote driving would be.