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It's hard to get across in a drive-by comment, but most of the advantages IMHO of alternative schooling methods are locked up behind increased parent engagement

It's hard to get across in a drive-by comment, but most of the advantages IMHO of alternative schooling methods are locked up behind increased parent engagement. You need standardised testing and close teacher evaluations etc if your operating model for learning is that you turn your child over to the school system and that system is then responsible for the complete education and safety of the child with minimal parental oversight or engagement. If you are passing on responsibility completely to the state then yes, the state needs "industrial tools" to be able to manage this at scale. With the closer involvement of parents and their acceptance of some responsibility for outcomes then a wide variety of more humane and personalised approaches to learning are possible.

matrix87 2y ago
The way you describe it, it sounds like the problem is a lack of parental involvement and not necessarily the schooling system itself
- rhelz 2y ago
  IMHO, 80% of the problems with public schools would go away if they were not funded from property taxes, but paid by the state out of its general budget. If the rich parents knew their kids would get the same education as poor kids, you bet average educational achievement would skyrocket. And the other 80% of the problems would go away if parents spent 2 hours a day on their kids education.
  - matrix87 2y ago
    I feel like actually getting rich people to behave in ways that benefit the general public is a lot less straightforward Suppose schools get funded like that. There's several other ways that the rich could ensure that their kids get a better outcome while still maintaining the relative advantage
    - rhelz 2y ago
      Baby steps. Don't let the ideal be the enemy of the real.
rhelz 2y ago
Well thanks for this comment, because it makes a good point. Holding teachers accountable? Sure. Holding parents accountable?? A lot of parents would like to do more, but these days, if you want to afford a house which has a bedroom for the kid, both parents have to be working. In the Bay Area, it's not even enough for both parents to be working--both parents have to be killing it very stressful jobs which require very long hours. It's so much easier to convert the guilt about bad parenting into anger at Teachers. Especially if you are continually worried about being laid off, while teachers have tenure. Especially if you have only 2 weeks vacation a year while the teachers get summer break. Especially if your employer is making unreasonable demands, while teachers have a strong union to advocate for them.

matrix87 2y ago

The way you describe it, it sounds like the problem is a lack of parental involvement and not necessarily the schooling system itself

rhelz 2y ago
IMHO, 80% of the problems with public schools would go away if they were not funded from property taxes, but paid by the state out of its general budget. If the rich parents knew their kids would get the same education as poor kids, you bet average educational achievement would skyrocket. And the other 80% of the problems would go away if parents spent 2 hours a day on their kids education.
- matrix87 2y ago
  I feel like actually getting rich people to behave in ways that benefit the general public is a lot less straightforward Suppose schools get funded like that. There's several other ways that the rich could ensure that their kids get a better outcome while still maintaining the relative advantage
  - rhelz 2y ago
    Baby steps. Don't let the ideal be the enemy of the real.

rhelz 2y ago

Well thanks for this comment, because it makes a good point. Holding teachers accountable? Sure. Holding parents accountable?? A lot of parents would like to do more, but these days, if you want to afford a house which has a bedroom for the kid, both parents have to be working. In the Bay Area, it's not even enough for both parents to be working--both parents have to be killing it very stressful jobs which require very long hours. It's so much easier to convert the guilt about bad parenting into anger at Teachers. Especially if you are continually worried about being laid off, while teachers have tenure. Especially if you have only 2 weeks vacation a year while the teachers get summer break. Especially if your employer is making unreasonable demands, while teachers have a strong union to advocate for them.