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I'm earnestly and honestly asking. Is there some good source material you can point me to that explains how this is in US citizens' interest? All I can find is

I'm earnestly and honestly asking. Is there some good source material you can point me to that explains how this is in US citizens' interest? All I can find is hyperbolic nonsense that seems markedly similar to the kind of information that was available during the invasion of Iraq. I really would rather feel good about US/Western foreign policy.

tremon 2y ago
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Just_asking_questions https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Just_asking_questions If all source material that you can find is hyperbolic nonsense, then you have made up your mind before looking.
- cupcakecommons 2y ago
  I haven't, and I'm familiar with this page. I am honestly worried about the US foreign policy. I'm not JAQing off. I want some credible source material from a community I trust. I'm sure other people reading this do too.
- cupcakecommons 2y ago
  Like actually why the fuck would I be pro-Russia? What's in it for me? Seeming edgy or something? Do you assume I'm unable to read the room? I'm a liberal computer nerd from a highly liberal locale. It's obviously so much easier to just agree that the US is bringing democracy or freedom or greater security to eastern Europe. Why would I bother unless it was actually deeply disturbing to me the more I earnestly dig into it? Have I been brainwashed by Russian agents through the internet or something? I am willing to accept this I just don't think that's actually the case upon close inspection.
  - immibis 2y ago
    Many people are pro-Russia because the Russian government pays them to be. Many others are pro-Russia because most of what they read or hear is from the first group.
    - cupcakecommons 2y ago
      It seems naive to imply the US has a less effective propaganda apparatus than Russia within its own direct sphere of influence. The idea that a country with 1/10th the GDP of the US outcompetes the US in propaganda delivery on its own pay-to-play media platforms doesn't make a lot of sense to me personally. Seeing any kind of anti-war dissent as influenced by pro-Russian agents seems like low-effort thinking. Being weary of an escalating proxy war with a high-manufacturing capacity, energy-rich superpower that historically has sacrificed large percentages of its population in total war is not inherently a pro-Russian stance; it's a common-sense stance that values life.
      - tremon 2y ago
        It seems equally naive to assume the opposite, given that some people are so eager to dismiss all material against the interests of Russia as "hyperbolic nonsense".
        cupcakecommons 2y ago
        I'm not eager to dismiss all material against the interests of Russia. I'm highly incentivized to see the Western sphere in a positive light. It's simply difficult to do so given the facts of the conflict at my disposal. What material are you referring to here? I'm motivated to change my opinion on this because the intelligent and sensitive people around me all seem to think the West is doing the right thing and at the very least I want to fit in while maintaining basic integrity.

tremon 2y ago

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Just_asking_questions https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Just_asking_questions If all source material that you can find is hyperbolic nonsense, then you have made up your mind before looking.

cupcakecommons 2y ago
I haven't, and I'm familiar with this page. I am honestly worried about the US foreign policy. I'm not JAQing off. I want some credible source material from a community I trust. I'm sure other people reading this do too.
cupcakecommons 2y ago
Like actually why the fuck would I be pro-Russia? What's in it for me? Seeming edgy or something? Do you assume I'm unable to read the room? I'm a liberal computer nerd from a highly liberal locale. It's obviously so much easier to just agree that the US is bringing democracy or freedom or greater security to eastern Europe. Why would I bother unless it was actually deeply disturbing to me the more I earnestly dig into it? Have I been brainwashed by Russian agents through the internet or something? I am willing to accept this I just don't think that's actually the case upon close inspection.
- immibis 2y ago
  Many people are pro-Russia because the Russian government pays them to be. Many others are pro-Russia because most of what they read or hear is from the first group.
  - cupcakecommons 2y ago
    It seems naive to imply the US has a less effective propaganda apparatus than Russia within its own direct sphere of influence. The idea that a country with 1/10th the GDP of the US outcompetes the US in propaganda delivery on its own pay-to-play media platforms doesn't make a lot of sense to me personally. Seeing any kind of anti-war dissent as influenced by pro-Russian agents seems like low-effort thinking. Being weary of an escalating proxy war with a high-manufacturing capacity, energy-rich superpower that historically has sacrificed large percentages of its population in total war is not inherently a pro-Russian stance; it's a common-sense stance that values life.
    - tremon 2y ago
      It seems equally naive to assume the opposite, given that some people are so eager to dismiss all material against the interests of Russia as "hyperbolic nonsense".
      - cupcakecommons 2y ago
        I'm not eager to dismiss all material against the interests of Russia. I'm highly incentivized to see the Western sphere in a positive light. It's simply difficult to do so given the facts of the conflict at my disposal. What material are you referring to here? I'm motivated to change my opinion on this because the intelligent and sensitive people around me all seem to think the West is doing the right thing and at the very least I want to fit in while maintaining basic integrity.