4 ms·

> It's wild to me that Teams is so fucking horrible that many businesses who effectively get it for free as part of other dealings still choose to pay for Slack

> It's wild to me that Teams is so fucking horrible that many businesses who effectively get it for free as part of other dealings still choose to pay for Slack. I don't agree. For many years now I use Linux. I pay for Slack because some of my clients use it and it is convenient. For some other clients I need to use Teams. I like Teams better. I never had issues with them. Slack I reinstall every 2-3 months because it breaks in some weird way; last time yesterday when I uploaded a 'big file' (csv of a few mb), not only did it crash but restarting it didn't help. Teams work good for chating, for the calendar, and for video calls. I have a lot better experience with Teams for video calls than Google Meet.

realusername 2y ago
They must have improved something because last time I tried, it had the sound quality of a 90s phone box on Linux because they copied over the Skype code which never worked.
gmokki 2y ago
Slack with the bundled chrome has been slow to support Wayland, even when it has required just one build time config switch for the past 3 years. And slack does not support audio/video calls on Linux/Firefox.
sqeaky 2y ago
I want to avoid the ms ecosystem so much that I use teams vs other tools as a litmus test. If I am not desperate for work I tell contracting firms "no teams meetings" in writing when we setting up new contracts. Often, this is isn't a problem and they setup a zoom, webex, or even a plain phone call. Frequently, they try to setup calls on teams and usually about 15m before I remind them that I won't do teams and either they tell me to install teams and send me a windows download link (which does me no good) or the frantically struggle to do anything else. When I explain that I won't install ms software and I will skip their offer for it their mind is blown and and I refer them back to the email they saw, responded to, and agreed to. Then I avoid working for someone who ignored me and would likely ignore me again over more serious matters. I should probably have more filters like this but avoiding this and the C# work closet to me has saved me a lot of long term pain.
- neonsunset 2y ago
  Avoiding C#? That's quite an unfortunate way of looking at the situation if it leads you to missing out on one of the best programming languages of today.
  - sqeaky 2y ago
    I strongly despise C#, and I say that with about 5 real years of experience with it. I have been on teams delivering real products with it. It is like Java but married to microsoft while philanders as it pleases. And when I say that out loud some putz always responds "but Mono!" and then the thing I need is inevitably not supported on Mono. When it is working it is stuck on windows server and needing a reboot for some half-assed update microsoft is pushing. With Java I can have all that on a Linux but at least pick which major vendor bends me over! Maybe C# works in Unity, but that is its fan scattering mess. In C, C++, or Rust I am not beholden to one company and can actually control the hardware to do my bidding. I can go into the compilers to find bugs and the creators are responsive when I make bug reports. Often these are more expressive and have tinier code as well. Isn't C# supposed to be faster to develop in these old crusty systems languages? Why that never the case on real teams I am on? If performance isn't what I need but rather short development cycles there is Lua, Python, BASH, or my personal favorite Ruby. All of these allow hacking together stuff so much faster, and when I have needed they it offer more control of the garbage collector or other runtime features so I often get better performance out of them. Then there are the shops using C#. I don't know why, and I see no obvious mechanism that causes this but the culture in C# shops are invariably terrible. I have done 16 contracts in the past 22 years and the least stressful most productive shops are always the nix using professionals or JavaScript slinging kids fresh from college. The overly corporate C# shops always seem stuck in bad ways, pushing some non-agile scrum, lacking any critical thinking, and are often overtly hostile. These are the shops that buy whatever consultant are selling and force it on me without ever consulting me. I have seen one fist-fight break out in the office and it was in a C# shop. Somehow those backend Unix greybeard wizards are always able to talk through their differences with the 22 year blue haired kid who wants progressive typing on the TypeScript interface that is fed by that wizard's service, and they often do it while discussing technical merit instead of political posturing. At last C# contract I started I left after 2 weeks (and I am not counting that towards my 16), because the lead developer was preposterously racist and felt comfortable opening up to me about that in that short a time period. I had a lot of self reflection about why he felt comfortable dumping his race war crap on me, and I have no clue why. C# is not as fast as the slow languages but productive languages. C# is not productive as fast but low productivity languages. And every other thing I mentioned doesn't even have a wiff of vendor lock-in. I am good without C# and the cultures that somehow arise around it. (and the pay sucks I easily get double doing anything* else)

realusername 2y ago

They must have improved something because last time I tried, it had the sound quality of a 90s phone box on Linux because they copied over the Skype code which never worked.

gmokki 2y ago

Slack with the bundled chrome has been slow to support Wayland, even when it has required just one build time config switch for the past 3 years. And slack does not support audio/video calls on Linux/Firefox.

sqeaky 2y ago

I want to avoid the ms ecosystem so much that I use teams vs other tools as a litmus test. If I am not desperate for work I tell contracting firms "no teams meetings" in writing when we setting up new contracts. Often, this is isn't a problem and they setup a zoom, webex, or even a plain phone call. Frequently, they try to setup calls on teams and usually about 15m before I remind them that I won't do teams and either they tell me to install teams and send me a windows download link (which does me no good) or the frantically struggle to do anything else. When I explain that I won't install ms software and I will skip their offer for it their mind is blown and and I refer them back to the email they saw, responded to, and agreed to. Then I avoid working for someone who ignored me and would likely ignore me again over more serious matters. I should probably have more filters like this but avoiding this and the C# work closet to me has saved me a lot of long term pain.

neonsunset 2y ago
Avoiding C#? That's quite an unfortunate way of looking at the situation if it leads you to missing out on one of the best programming languages of today.
- sqeaky 2y ago
  I strongly despise C#, and I say that with about 5 real years of experience with it. I have been on teams delivering real products with it. It is like Java but married to microsoft while philanders as it pleases. And when I say that out loud some putz always responds "but Mono!" and then the thing I need is inevitably not supported on Mono. When it is working it is stuck on windows server and needing a reboot for some half-assed update microsoft is pushing. With Java I can have all that on a Linux but at least pick which major vendor bends me over! Maybe C# works in Unity, but that is its fan scattering mess. In C, C++, or Rust I am not beholden to one company and can actually control the hardware to do my bidding. I can go into the compilers to find bugs and the creators are responsive when I make bug reports. Often these are more expressive and have tinier code as well. Isn't C# supposed to be faster to develop in these old crusty systems languages? Why that never the case on real teams I am on? If performance isn't what I need but rather short development cycles there is Lua, Python, BASH, or my personal favorite Ruby. All of these allow hacking together stuff so much faster, and when I have needed they it offer more control of the garbage collector or other runtime features so I often get better performance out of them. Then there are the shops using C#. I don't know why, and I see no obvious mechanism that causes this but the culture in C# shops are invariably terrible. I have done 16 contracts in the past 22 years and the least stressful most productive shops are always the nix using professionals or JavaScript slinging kids fresh from college. The overly corporate C# shops always seem stuck in bad ways, pushing some non-agile scrum, lacking any critical thinking, and are often overtly hostile. These are the shops that buy whatever consultant are selling and force it on me without ever consulting me. I have seen one fist-fight break out in the office and it was in a C# shop. Somehow those backend Unix greybeard wizards are always able to talk through their differences with the 22 year blue haired kid who wants progressive typing on the TypeScript interface that is fed by that wizard's service, and they often do it while discussing technical merit instead of political posturing. At last C# contract I started I left after 2 weeks (and I am not counting that towards my 16), because the lead developer was preposterously racist and felt comfortable opening up to me about that in that short a time period. I had a lot of self reflection about why he felt comfortable dumping his race war crap on me, and I have no clue why. C# is not as fast as the slow languages but productive languages. C# is not productive as fast but low productivity languages. And every other thing I mentioned doesn't even have a wiff of vendor lock-in. I am good without C# and the cultures that somehow arise around it. (and the pay sucks I easily get double doing anything* else)