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You could make this argument about any bundling. All of the 365 products as well as similar from Adobe etc have been bundled in ways to lock out competition. E

You could make this argument about any bundling. All of the 365 products as well as similar from Adobe etc have been bundled in ways to lock out competition. Even Spotify is planning to. At some point EU needs to bring clarity to their competition laws and decide what they want the landscape to look like. Because right now they are just making up the rules as they go.

Arainach 2y ago
It's legal to bundle products. It's not legal to use a monopoly in one area to leverage your way into another market.
LordKeren 2y ago
I will be the last person to ever say Adobe is above criticism, but until Adobe creates an entire AdobeOS, I’m not sure they’re in the same league as MS here
sudosysgen 2y ago
Bundling is illegal in the EU if it used to abuse a dominant market position in one market to gain a competitive advantage in another. So what Adobe does, or what Spotify wants to do by bundling their own products within the same market, is far from the level of bundling Teams with Office, which is bundling across markets and where Office is extremely dominant. I don't think the EU is just making up the rules here, there are rules and this case is far more egregious and more clearly in violation than the examples you gave.
amarcheschi 2y ago
What do you mean by "making up the rules as they go"? Microsoft was found in breach of the Article 102 of the Treaty on the functioning of european union, which was last modified in 2007, and the article it infringed on abuse of dominant position was ratified in 2003. Furthermore, two other companies (one of which is american) complained to the european commission about Teams and only then an investigation was started
NBJack 2y ago
Perhaps, but Adobe and Spotify aren't offering a operating system where this crap is bundled. Neither do those examples have a 72% market share of PCs. Microsoft basically gave Teams away to corporate customers. Now, couple this fact with how many manufactures include a pre-installed copy Office 365 on consumer devices, add in this automatically included Teams since 2019, and you have a nasty combination. Bonus: Microsoft gets to inflate its numbers on adoption. Finally, Adobe Creative Cloud has roughly 30 million subscribers. Spotify has about 213 million subscribers. Windows, in general, has about 1.3 billion users.

Arainach 2y ago

It's legal to bundle products. It's not legal to use a monopoly in one area to leverage your way into another market.

LordKeren 2y ago

I will be the last person to ever say Adobe is above criticism, but until Adobe creates an entire AdobeOS, I’m not sure they’re in the same league as MS here

sudosysgen 2y ago

Bundling is illegal in the EU if it used to abuse a dominant market position in one market to gain a competitive advantage in another. So what Adobe does, or what Spotify wants to do by bundling their own products within the same market, is far from the level of bundling Teams with Office, which is bundling across markets and where Office is extremely dominant. I don't think the EU is just making up the rules here, there are rules and this case is far more egregious and more clearly in violation than the examples you gave.

amarcheschi 2y ago

What do you mean by "making up the rules as they go"? Microsoft was found in breach of the Article 102 of the Treaty on the functioning of european union, which was last modified in 2007, and the article it infringed on abuse of dominant position was ratified in 2003. Furthermore, two other companies (one of which is american) complained to the european commission about Teams and only then an investigation was started

NBJack 2y ago

Perhaps, but Adobe and Spotify aren't offering a operating system where this crap is bundled. Neither do those examples have a 72% market share of PCs. Microsoft basically gave Teams away to corporate customers. Now, couple this fact with how many manufactures include a pre-installed copy Office 365 on consumer devices, add in this automatically included Teams since 2019, and you have a nasty combination. Bonus: Microsoft gets to inflate its numbers on adoption. Finally, Adobe Creative Cloud has roughly 30 million subscribers. Spotify has about 213 million subscribers. Windows, in general, has about 1.3 billion users.